WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:32.952 --> 00:00:35.202 Dave etler: Welcome back to the short coat podcast. 00:00:35.982 --> 00:00:38.502 The show that gives you an honest look at medical school, a 00:00:38.502 --> 00:00:42.312 production of the university of Iowa, Carver college of medicine. 00:00:42.552 --> 00:00:46.332 I'm Dave Etler, but what's really important this, I mean, pay 00:00:46.332 --> 00:00:48.912 attention listeners, pay attention. 00:00:50.057 --> 00:00:53.117 What's really important in my co-hosts on today's show, never 00:00:53.207 --> 00:00:54.617 in the history of this podcast. 00:00:54.617 --> 00:00:59.057 Has there been a more intelligent, more compassionate, more collaborative, 00:00:59.297 --> 00:01:03.047 more organized, purposeful, reliable self-directed and open-minded 00:01:03.047 --> 00:01:04.427 group of medical student. 00:01:04.427 --> 00:01:09.227 Co-hosts a prime example of these traits, which I picked out of 317 positive 00:01:09.227 --> 00:01:13.877 character traits that I found on some random website is MTU Nicole Heinz, 00:01:16.877 --> 00:01:23.907 uh, say hello to a top-notch MD/PhD students, Savannah, uh, Ruma gum, and, 00:01:23.957 --> 00:01:27.397 over here we've got, her intelligence is matched only by her stress level. 00:01:27.397 --> 00:01:33.367 It's MD/PhD student Riley B Han Bush, and joining us for the first time. 00:01:34.247 --> 00:01:35.837 sort of all the way from Shanghai. 00:01:35.867 --> 00:01:36.437 China is. 00:01:37.467 --> 00:01:38.037 mouse song. 00:01:38.037 --> 00:01:38.397 Yay. 00:01:38.667 --> 00:01:38.937 Yep. 00:01:39.057 --> 00:01:39.267 Let's 00:01:39.267 --> 00:01:39.657 Mao Ye: do it. 00:01:39.717 --> 00:01:40.017 Yeah. 00:01:40.017 --> 00:01:41.967 I go by mowing med school though, so 00:01:42.567 --> 00:01:42.987 Dave etler: perfect. 00:01:43.827 --> 00:01:47.427 I w I was, you know, like, you've probably heard, I think you said you'd 00:01:47.427 --> 00:01:51.057 listened to the show and you've probably heard me screw it up before, so, no, 00:01:51.067 --> 00:01:51.927 Mao Ye: that was perfect. 00:01:51.927 --> 00:01:52.737 Pronunciation. 00:01:52.807 --> 00:01:53.307 no one: Appreciate 00:01:53.307 --> 00:01:53.457 Dave etler: it. 00:01:55.207 --> 00:01:57.937 Riley Behan-Bush: Dave, you messed up my first, my last name on the first time I 00:01:57.937 --> 00:01:59.617 was, I probably just messed it up now. 00:01:59.707 --> 00:02:00.177 No, you did. 00:02:00.207 --> 00:02:00.727 All right. 00:02:00.907 --> 00:02:05.197 Well, he was like, we spent the first five minutes when I showed up being like Hasan 00:02:05.287 --> 00:02:07.507 being, not be hand and the moment the 00:02:07.507 --> 00:02:08.827 no one: shelter non, maybe you edited it. 00:02:08.857 --> 00:02:09.667 I think I just said, 00:02:10.417 --> 00:02:11.737 Dave etler: I think he just, did you just say 00:02:15.517 --> 00:02:17.527 I could only correctly pronounce one 00:02:17.527 --> 00:02:18.577 no one: person's name? 00:02:20.317 --> 00:02:21.027 It's so funny. 00:02:21.067 --> 00:02:21.697 Well, I'm glad it was 00:02:25.642 --> 00:02:27.472 Dave etler: And, you know, so I put all of my energy. 00:02:27.472 --> 00:02:28.162 I've been rehearsing. 00:02:28.762 --> 00:02:30.262 I've been rehearsing your name for days. 00:02:31.152 --> 00:02:31.822 no one: I can't. 00:02:31.822 --> 00:02:32.092 Yeah, 00:02:34.462 --> 00:02:36.382 Dave etler: but unfortunately I only have so many brain cells. 00:02:37.122 --> 00:02:37.312 no one: Okay. 00:02:37.722 --> 00:02:38.362 Riley Behan-Bush: I'm fine. 00:02:38.452 --> 00:02:40.492 I'm fine to be the brain cell that doesn't make it 00:02:41.812 --> 00:02:42.262 no one: pruned out. 00:02:42.832 --> 00:02:43.852 Dave etler: Mal, welcome to the show. 00:02:43.852 --> 00:02:48.092 I, I think you got your chemistry PhD at the university of Iowa before joining us 00:02:48.092 --> 00:02:49.532 here at the Carver college of medicine. 00:02:51.782 --> 00:02:54.872 And before that, as I said, you came to us from Shanghai. 00:02:55.172 --> 00:02:58.742 so how long before you came here, did you live in Iowa? 00:02:59.932 --> 00:03:00.862 Mao Ye: living Iowa 00:03:00.892 --> 00:03:03.052 Dave etler: before I did you come right from China to 00:03:03.052 --> 00:03:03.442 Mao Ye: Iowa? 00:03:03.532 --> 00:03:03.812 Yeah. 00:03:04.432 --> 00:03:04.762 Yeah. 00:03:04.762 --> 00:03:06.262 So it was direct to transition, 00:03:06.262 --> 00:03:08.962 Dave etler: you know, I, you know, I bet you can't speak for all Chinese 00:03:08.962 --> 00:03:11.092 people know, who come to the line. 00:03:11.842 --> 00:03:14.102 I mean, I don't want to put you under that much pressure, who come to the 00:03:14.102 --> 00:03:17.782 U S to study, but why did you choose a us school instead of a Chinese. 00:03:18.877 --> 00:03:20.137 Mao Ye: that's a good question. 00:03:20.197 --> 00:03:23.137 so I went to a really good college in China. 00:03:23.227 --> 00:03:30.037 I don't want to brag about it, but yeah, so I felt like 00:03:30.127 --> 00:03:32.077 I wanted more challenge also. 00:03:32.167 --> 00:03:37.087 No, I grew up with this, like Western, I, I grew up in Shanghai, which is a huge 00:03:37.087 --> 00:03:42.637 city, you know, I had all the, Western culture influence, I guess I liked it. 00:03:42.637 --> 00:03:44.797 It's, it's interesting to me. 00:03:45.247 --> 00:03:50.417 So that's why, you know, when I was, I also got a master degree in China as 00:03:50.417 --> 00:03:53.327 well, so I went to graduate school there. 00:03:53.407 --> 00:03:57.267 you know, like people, classmates in my, labs, they went. 00:03:58.047 --> 00:04:00.117 Japan, which is closer to China. 00:04:00.657 --> 00:04:04.587 but I felt like I was a checked, hit to more Western culture. 00:04:04.947 --> 00:04:07.947 So I decided to go all the way to the other side of the world. 00:04:08.427 --> 00:04:11.357 Dave etler: W was there, was there any culture shock for you at all? 00:04:11.357 --> 00:04:13.307 Or was it just like, oh, I know what this is 00:04:13.307 --> 00:04:13.637 no one: about. 00:04:14.747 --> 00:04:15.707 Mao Ye: I don't know. 00:04:16.127 --> 00:04:22.457 Like people say culture shock when that really means, I guess I was fine. 00:04:22.487 --> 00:04:26.177 I mean, food wise, I always like everything. 00:04:26.447 --> 00:04:26.957 Very good. 00:04:26.987 --> 00:04:28.727 You know, Chinese food, whatever. 00:04:28.727 --> 00:04:32.327 So was not, was not difficult for me. 00:04:32.427 --> 00:04:35.457 like talking to a people Iowa, no Midwest. 00:04:35.457 --> 00:04:35.907 Nice. 00:04:36.627 --> 00:04:40.287 So it was not shocked to me either so interesting. 00:04:40.287 --> 00:04:40.437 Yeah. 00:04:40.437 --> 00:04:42.687 I didn't feel like culture shock. 00:04:42.717 --> 00:04:42.867 So 00:04:42.867 --> 00:04:46.567 Dave etler: there wasn't anything puzzling about, about 00:04:46.627 --> 00:04:49.717 America or Iowa compared to it. 00:04:49.717 --> 00:04:52.957 Like you were like, w was there anything where you're like, why is this. 00:04:54.517 --> 00:04:55.597 Mao Ye: I don't recall. 00:04:55.597 --> 00:04:59.997 Like I ever thought that like that, you know, I had to practice my English. 00:05:00.027 --> 00:05:04.677 That was like the, probably one of the shorter, hardest obstacles. 00:05:04.827 --> 00:05:04.977 Yeah. 00:05:05.697 --> 00:05:06.537 Dave etler: Well, I'm glad you're here. 00:05:06.837 --> 00:05:07.197 Thank you. 00:05:07.287 --> 00:05:08.307 I'm glad all of you are here. 00:05:09.237 --> 00:05:10.407 I don't want to leave any of you out. 00:05:10.467 --> 00:05:11.367 I'm glad all of you are here. 00:05:11.997 --> 00:05:14.607 I've already left out my ability to pronounce your name. 00:05:14.607 --> 00:05:17.067 So I don't want to leave the rest of you out. 00:05:17.517 --> 00:05:18.267 I'm glad that you're here. 00:05:18.907 --> 00:05:21.727 shortcodes you can ask us anything about medical school. 00:05:21.727 --> 00:05:26.197 You like by calling us at 3, 4, 7 short CT and leaving a message or emailing 00:05:26.197 --> 00:05:27.517 us at the shortcuts at g-mail dot com. 00:05:27.547 --> 00:05:29.227 I did not get any questions though. 00:05:29.227 --> 00:05:30.487 This is a problem. 00:05:33.157 --> 00:05:36.187 I know I didn't get any questions. 00:05:36.217 --> 00:05:39.877 So I went to Reddit and I found some, 00:05:41.527 --> 00:05:42.697 no one: I found some questions 00:05:43.267 --> 00:05:46.507 Dave etler: from the official, mega thread for incoming medical students. 00:05:46.607 --> 00:05:50.297 maybe you guys can help answer these questions and. 00:05:51.257 --> 00:05:53.927 And, you know, just give a little advice, cause people are gonna come here soon. 00:05:54.017 --> 00:05:54.217 no one: It's 00:05:55.247 --> 00:05:58.937 Riley Behan-Bush: but only if they have a 99% M cat score and also have 00:05:58.937 --> 00:06:02.847 a 4.3, two, GPA, and every other thing that read it tells you have 00:06:02.847 --> 00:06:03.987 to have going into medical school. 00:06:04.277 --> 00:06:05.217 no one: I, I gotta go. 00:06:07.167 --> 00:06:09.867 Riley Behan-Bush: I'm going to need, I'm gonna need to know their credentials. 00:06:09.867 --> 00:06:10.737 I'm going to need to know everything. 00:06:10.737 --> 00:06:12.717 Cause that's what Reddit always has taught me is you, if you're 00:06:12.717 --> 00:06:14.907 not the top, don't even try. 00:06:15.177 --> 00:06:17.427 Dave etler: We might need to go with the honor system here. 00:06:17.427 --> 00:06:23.607 So if you're, if your M cat doesn't in your GPA, don't, you know, 00:06:23.667 --> 00:06:25.017 reach those thresholds lists. 00:06:26.517 --> 00:06:28.907 Here, we're gonna have to go find another medical school podcast listened 00:06:28.907 --> 00:06:29.157 no one: to 00:06:29.547 --> 00:06:29.847 Riley Behan-Bush: we're. 00:06:29.847 --> 00:06:30.957 We're really hardcore here. 00:06:31.077 --> 00:06:34.847 See if you have not solved cancer, you're out. 00:06:34.857 --> 00:06:37.197 Like if you've not done 10 years of research, 00:06:37.227 --> 00:06:37.647 no one: if you don't 00:06:37.647 --> 00:06:40.767 Dave etler: have, if you don't have five first author publications 00:06:41.307 --> 00:06:43.437 you're done, if you don't. 00:06:43.587 --> 00:06:44.667 what, what are some other things, if 00:06:44.667 --> 00:06:44.877 no one: you, 00:06:44.997 --> 00:06:47.757 Riley Behan-Bush: if you're not associated with a Nobel Laureate, like 00:06:47.967 --> 00:06:53.637 even try, like, if your mentor is not like out here winning awards left and 00:06:53.637 --> 00:06:53.877 no one: right. 00:06:53.907 --> 00:06:54.627 You're done. 00:06:55.767 --> 00:06:59.247 Dave etler: If you got a real letter of recommendation from 00:06:59.247 --> 00:07:01.797 just a physician, don't even 00:07:01.797 --> 00:07:02.697 no one: try, I mean, 00:07:03.297 --> 00:07:04.047 Dave etler: get out. 00:07:05.252 --> 00:07:07.692 that's none of that's true listeners, you know, that's true. 00:07:07.692 --> 00:07:07.862 No, 00:07:07.862 --> 00:07:09.422 no one: that's not true that automatic, 00:07:09.422 --> 00:07:10.202 Riley Behan-Bush: you might think it's true. 00:07:10.232 --> 00:07:11.162 You know, that's not true. 00:07:13.742 --> 00:07:14.672 Dave etler: I'm going to level with you. 00:07:15.002 --> 00:07:16.382 I could get into medical school. 00:07:16.592 --> 00:07:18.842 Dave Etler could get into medical school. 00:07:19.082 --> 00:07:20.012 I promise you that. 00:07:20.342 --> 00:07:21.212 Could I stay? 00:07:23.552 --> 00:07:26.102 I don't know if I could, I don't know if I could. 00:07:26.132 --> 00:07:27.062 I have a terrible memory. 00:07:28.022 --> 00:07:28.592 no one: You could work on. 00:07:29.432 --> 00:07:31.072 What do you mean you could work on that? 00:07:32.072 --> 00:07:32.972 Riley Behan-Bush: How do you work on that? 00:07:36.152 --> 00:07:37.772 Dave etler: I've had almost 52 years. 00:07:37.772 --> 00:07:40.772 I've had exactly 52 years to build up this skill. 00:07:40.802 --> 00:07:41.852 How often are you say 00:07:41.852 --> 00:07:42.452 Sahaana Arumugam: your birthday? 00:07:42.452 --> 00:07:44.642 Is that why you're saying exactly 52 years. 00:07:45.242 --> 00:07:47.512 Dave etler: 52 years, plus, yeah. 00:07:47.582 --> 00:07:47.682 I 00:07:47.682 --> 00:07:48.572 Sahaana Arumugam: would just want to make sure 00:07:51.472 --> 00:07:51.902 Riley Behan-Bush: such a 00:07:51.902 --> 00:07:54.152 no one: sly way to tell people that it's your birthday. 00:07:54.392 --> 00:07:56.522 Riley Behan-Bush: It's been exactly 26 00:07:56.522 --> 00:07:56.762 no one: years. 00:07:57.842 --> 00:08:00.662 Dave etler: 52 years plus a four 00:08:00.662 --> 00:08:01.052 no one: weeks. 00:08:01.232 --> 00:08:01.682 Riley Behan-Bush: Okay. 00:08:01.702 --> 00:08:02.092 Okay. 00:08:02.402 --> 00:08:05.342 Well, for the record, all those things I was saying do not count. 00:08:05.402 --> 00:08:09.242 And that is the only thing you read on Reddit and or student doctor network. 00:08:09.272 --> 00:08:10.772 Sorry, sponsored by either of them. 00:08:11.522 --> 00:08:12.122 no one: We are not 00:08:14.342 --> 00:08:14.732 Riley Behan-Bush: studying. 00:08:14.792 --> 00:08:16.952 I was like, oh no, it's red. 00:08:16.952 --> 00:08:18.662 It's thrown big money at med 00:08:18.662 --> 00:08:19.622 no one: student podcasts. 00:08:21.782 --> 00:08:22.322 Dave etler: Oh my God. 00:08:22.322 --> 00:08:22.682 Don't worry. 00:08:23.792 --> 00:08:24.122 Yeah. 00:08:24.122 --> 00:08:26.072 So maybe you guys can help answer these questions. 00:08:26.132 --> 00:08:27.002 so let's start with the. 00:08:27.782 --> 00:08:29.192 How do you take notes? 00:08:29.642 --> 00:08:33.392 I swear every medical student on YouTube or social media takes either 00:08:33.392 --> 00:08:38.312 color handwritten notes or uses some intricate notion dashboard. 00:08:38.342 --> 00:08:39.572 This can't be realistic. 00:08:39.572 --> 00:08:40.742 So how do you actually do it? 00:08:40.742 --> 00:08:43.442 What system do you use? 00:08:43.592 --> 00:08:43.832 First 00:08:43.832 --> 00:08:43.982 Sahaana Arumugam: of all? 00:08:43.982 --> 00:08:44.642 I don't know what a 00:08:44.642 --> 00:08:45.932 no one: notion dashboard. 00:08:45.932 --> 00:08:46.532 Dave etler: I don't either. 00:08:46.742 --> 00:08:47.222 I don't either. 00:08:47.672 --> 00:08:48.242 I was hoping 00:08:48.242 --> 00:08:51.902 no one: it was something, so we don't know what it is. 00:08:51.902 --> 00:08:53.072 Nobody's doing it. 00:08:53.372 --> 00:08:53.822 How did 00:08:54.182 --> 00:08:58.532 Dave etler: your closer Mauer to, to the M one year, how did you, what did you do? 00:08:58.592 --> 00:09:00.422 How did you, how did you take your notes? 00:09:00.872 --> 00:09:02.012 I did you memorize? 00:09:02.522 --> 00:09:04.202 Mao Ye: Memorize, to be honest. 00:09:04.232 --> 00:09:08.042 one check I've found is to quiz yourself just to repeatedly. 00:09:08.372 --> 00:09:13.922 That's how you remember stuff, but the way I used to read a stuff that doesn't 00:09:13.922 --> 00:09:18.702 help me memorize, yeah, just keep quizzing yourself and you'll memorize more. 00:09:22.302 --> 00:09:22.362 Dave etler: I 00:09:22.362 --> 00:09:24.162 Riley Behan-Bush: think everyone does this so differently. 00:09:24.162 --> 00:09:28.332 I've heard a lot of people, again, just like in the, the world of 00:09:28.332 --> 00:09:30.452 like debating how best to study. 00:09:30.472 --> 00:09:34.722 A lot of people will say like taking notes on PowerPoints is worthless. 00:09:35.232 --> 00:09:38.562 I wholeheartedly disagree as a person. 00:09:38.562 --> 00:09:40.212 Who's got a very scattered brain. 00:09:40.482 --> 00:09:43.572 If I'm not doing something in a class, I can't just like sit there 00:09:43.572 --> 00:09:46.572 and like look at the professor and then absorb all the information. 00:09:46.842 --> 00:09:51.252 So for me, I would actually put the PowerPoints on too. 00:09:51.372 --> 00:09:52.212 I use Notability. 00:09:52.212 --> 00:09:53.082 You could use good notes. 00:09:53.082 --> 00:09:54.342 You could use, what are the other ones? 00:09:54.572 --> 00:09:54.632 I 00:09:54.632 --> 00:09:54.932 Sahaana Arumugam: don't know. 00:09:54.932 --> 00:09:57.872 I used a free app called PDF expert in harvest, 00:09:58.172 --> 00:10:00.512 Riley Behan-Bush: right in the margins, right in the margins. 00:10:00.512 --> 00:10:03.752 And then I would just like re try to synthesize what the professor was saying. 00:10:03.932 --> 00:10:06.512 Usually all the things they're saying are on the notes. 00:10:06.512 --> 00:10:09.662 So it'll just be me adding like little snippets that they might 00:10:09.662 --> 00:10:10.742 not have added to the notes. 00:10:11.657 --> 00:10:13.997 Ways that I can, resynthesize the information. 00:10:13.997 --> 00:10:16.097 And that make more sense in my brain. 00:10:16.637 --> 00:10:17.657 Was that the best way? 00:10:17.717 --> 00:10:18.347 I don't know. 00:10:18.377 --> 00:10:19.187 It worked for me. 00:10:19.337 --> 00:10:20.387 So you're still here. 00:10:20.417 --> 00:10:20.957 Dave etler: I'm still here. 00:10:21.647 --> 00:10:23.717 Unlike the hypothetical NetSuite, Dave Etler. 00:10:24.737 --> 00:10:27.397 yeah, I feel like, that's a very common way. 00:10:27.427 --> 00:10:31.897 I mean, people really depend on the, the PowerPoint, getting the slides 00:10:31.897 --> 00:10:36.397 in advance from the professors and when they can't get them, for some 00:10:36.397 --> 00:10:38.857 reason they're thrown into chaos. 00:10:39.667 --> 00:10:39.757 you 00:10:39.757 --> 00:10:42.337 Riley Behan-Bush: guys do like honky or flashcards, like during class. 00:10:42.337 --> 00:10:44.977 Cause I know that's another way during class, like people will 00:10:44.977 --> 00:10:48.727 make the flashcards while they're in lecture or I could not do that. 00:10:48.727 --> 00:10:51.097 And then like that is their lecture time. 00:10:51.097 --> 00:10:55.627 They're like half paying attention, but they're using that lecture time 00:10:55.687 --> 00:10:58.057 as like creation of flashcards. 00:10:58.057 --> 00:10:59.317 I would see people do that. 00:10:59.407 --> 00:11:00.457 Some of the lecture color. 00:11:01.057 --> 00:11:01.777 Okay. 00:11:02.227 --> 00:11:02.317 I 00:11:02.407 --> 00:11:05.047 Nicole Hines: think this question always comes up around orientation 00:11:05.497 --> 00:11:06.427 and the sense I always get. 00:11:07.417 --> 00:11:10.777 When people are super anxious asking this is they forget that 00:11:10.777 --> 00:11:14.887 they've already finished a degree where they studied and had success. 00:11:15.457 --> 00:11:18.817 I feel like that would be my first part of advice would just to 00:11:18.817 --> 00:11:20.737 be, do what you know, how to do. 00:11:21.937 --> 00:11:23.317 And then build off of that. 00:11:23.317 --> 00:11:27.037 With advice from classmates learning specialists, we have one in our counseling 00:11:27.037 --> 00:11:31.177 center, like they'll have sessions on how to study, go attend those things. 00:11:31.177 --> 00:11:35.767 If you think you don't get it, but you, you do at this point, have 00:11:35.767 --> 00:11:37.327 something there that you can build 00:11:37.327 --> 00:11:41.257 Riley Behan-Bush: off of the one advice that I would say change immediately. 00:11:41.257 --> 00:11:42.997 It was one that I had to change immediately 00:11:43.567 --> 00:11:43.897 no one: is that 00:11:43.897 --> 00:11:45.727 Riley Behan-Bush: I went from an undergrad. 00:11:45.727 --> 00:11:46.927 I would like take all my notes. 00:11:46.927 --> 00:11:50.107 I would never like put the PowerPoints on a slide and then write in the margins. 00:11:50.287 --> 00:11:52.807 I would always like try to take notes during class. 00:11:53.107 --> 00:11:54.547 It's going to be too much information. 00:11:54.577 --> 00:11:56.497 You're not going to be able to write all those notes. 00:11:56.497 --> 00:12:00.277 I would just do like the PowerPoint, write in the margins, kind of annotate it for 00:12:00.277 --> 00:12:01.607 yourself because if you go to the first. 00:12:02.662 --> 00:12:05.962 And it's like a 60 slide PowerPoint. 00:12:06.202 --> 00:12:07.822 You're not going to be taking notes on that. 00:12:07.822 --> 00:12:09.292 Not effectively. 00:12:09.412 --> 00:12:11.992 You're just going to be like scrambling to try to get every 00:12:11.992 --> 00:12:13.222 word that's on the PowerPoint. 00:12:13.402 --> 00:12:14.752 Take the PowerPoints, annotate them. 00:12:14.812 --> 00:12:16.042 That's the first change. 00:12:16.042 --> 00:12:17.062 And then go from there, 00:12:17.722 --> 00:12:21.952 Dave etler: back in my day, we didn't, you, you young, you young 00:12:21.952 --> 00:12:24.592 whippersnappers in your PowerPoint slides. 00:12:24.592 --> 00:12:28.852 We had, we had, we were lucky if the professor wrote things on a transparency, 00:12:29.782 --> 00:12:31.542 Riley Behan-Bush: projectors, not a Blackboard, 00:12:31.552 --> 00:12:33.502 Dave etler: wouldn't even take a picture of that transparency. 00:12:33.502 --> 00:12:35.872 We had to like, take a picture of it with our minds. 00:12:38.452 --> 00:12:40.582 Riley Behan-Bush: This is why you think you're a bad memorizer. 00:12:41.692 --> 00:12:46.282 Dave etler: I sometimes I wonder, like, could I like with the technology we have 00:12:46.282 --> 00:12:52.882 today, like with inky and, and, or inky conky with their like spaced repetition 00:12:52.912 --> 00:12:54.322 algorithms and all this kinda stuff. 00:12:55.477 --> 00:12:57.607 Could I could I, maybe I could. 00:12:57.907 --> 00:12:58.387 No, I 00:12:58.537 --> 00:13:00.697 Mao Ye: do think you could, like everybody could. 00:13:00.997 --> 00:13:01.417 Okay. 00:13:01.507 --> 00:13:01.687 Riley Behan-Bush: Yep. 00:13:01.717 --> 00:13:04.987 I think there's a multi-verse in which you are a Nobel Laureate, 00:13:06.967 --> 00:13:11.707 that there is a world in which David Adler is a Nobel Laureate and 00:13:11.707 --> 00:13:13.747 that he had the ability to use AKI. 00:13:13.867 --> 00:13:14.947 And that's how we got there. 00:13:15.187 --> 00:13:15.637 no one: Nice, 00:13:16.297 --> 00:13:16.657 Dave etler: nice. 00:13:16.657 --> 00:13:23.317 Well, too, if the, if it happens that the other universe me is listening 00:13:23.317 --> 00:13:29.527 right now and it has well, the got their Nobel Laureate in some physics 00:13:29.527 --> 00:13:33.007 discipline that allows them to subscribe to podcasts from other universities. 00:13:35.827 --> 00:13:37.987 Riley Behan-Bush: They're good 00:13:37.987 --> 00:13:38.527 Dave etler: on, good 00:13:38.527 --> 00:13:39.007 no one: on you. 00:13:39.667 --> 00:13:41.677 And I dimensional podcasts in that way. 00:13:41.857 --> 00:13:42.247 Yeah. 00:13:42.607 --> 00:13:42.847 Nice 00:13:42.847 --> 00:13:43.267 Dave etler: work. 00:13:43.297 --> 00:13:43.357 Yeah. 00:13:44.647 --> 00:13:44.977 right. 00:13:45.097 --> 00:13:46.897 Have we, have we dealt with that question? 00:13:47.437 --> 00:13:47.917 no one: Okay. 00:13:48.517 --> 00:13:49.147 Riley Behan-Bush: Works for you. 00:13:49.447 --> 00:13:50.917 That's what it comes down to. 00:13:51.337 --> 00:13:52.957 That's what, like, all of these questions are gonna relate. 00:13:52.957 --> 00:13:54.547 It's like, do what works for 00:13:54.547 --> 00:13:54.937 no one: you. 00:13:54.937 --> 00:13:56.137 If it doesn't work for you, don't 00:13:56.137 --> 00:13:56.467 Dave etler: do it. 00:13:56.737 --> 00:13:56.977 Yeah. 00:13:57.007 --> 00:13:57.607 Change it. 00:13:57.997 --> 00:13:58.987 Let's try something else. 00:13:59.017 --> 00:14:00.037 You know what the thing is? 00:14:00.577 --> 00:14:04.687 You know, people always worried like, oh, if I didn't get good grades in that first, 00:14:04.717 --> 00:14:06.907 you know, if I you'll, you'll do fine. 00:14:07.717 --> 00:14:08.167 Right. 00:14:08.917 --> 00:14:11.347 If you want to do even better, you know? 00:14:11.347 --> 00:14:11.557 Yeah. 00:14:11.557 --> 00:14:15.187 You could change it up and adjust, but you know, really when it comes down to 00:14:15.187 --> 00:14:18.847 like getting your residency, I don't really know that those, that first. 00:14:19.672 --> 00:14:22.522 Those first two semesters are really that important. 00:14:22.522 --> 00:14:26.062 I think what's more important is probably your grades during clinical clerkships. 00:14:26.062 --> 00:14:31.232 And I mean, you know, you don't want to fail anything, but, you know, or 00:14:31.232 --> 00:14:34.022 if you do you want to make it up or whatever, you know, like, it'll be fine. 00:14:34.292 --> 00:14:35.402 It'll be fine. 00:14:36.302 --> 00:14:37.562 Nicole Hines: It's one more thing. 00:14:37.562 --> 00:14:38.042 It's easy 00:14:38.042 --> 00:14:39.572 Riley Behan-Bush: to waste energy, looking at other 00:14:39.572 --> 00:14:41.162 Nicole Hines: people and convincing yourself. 00:14:41.162 --> 00:14:43.652 You're doing it wrong because you're not doing it the way they are. 00:14:44.132 --> 00:14:45.392 And if you find yourself doing that 00:14:45.392 --> 00:14:49.452 Dave etler: stop, do you guys, pay attention to, YouTube and social 00:14:49.452 --> 00:14:52.582 media med student influencers at all? 00:14:53.212 --> 00:14:54.892 Oh, I think Riley might know. 00:14:55.222 --> 00:14:57.742 Riley Behan-Bush: I like, well, they'll pop up because tic-tac is an algorithm 00:14:57.742 --> 00:14:59.422 and you can only like avoid them so much. 00:14:59.422 --> 00:15:01.372 So I look at them with fascination. 00:15:01.372 --> 00:15:05.872 I don't look at them with like trying to gain something. 00:15:05.872 --> 00:15:08.152 I thought they were more interesting when I was an undergrad. 00:15:08.152 --> 00:15:10.582 And I was like, thinking about going to medical school because I was 00:15:10.582 --> 00:15:12.612 always so fascinated by like, what is. 00:15:13.387 --> 00:15:18.187 Process like, and I think that's the only way in which it is useful as like, 00:15:18.217 --> 00:15:20.737 what does a day look like as you're trying to figure out, like, is this the 00:15:20.737 --> 00:15:22.717 right path for me as a medical student? 00:15:22.717 --> 00:15:26.487 No, I think it's like, it's not toxic, but it's like, it's the comparison. 00:15:26.607 --> 00:15:28.107 It's the, what is it? 00:15:28.107 --> 00:15:29.577 Thief of joy is comparison. 00:15:29.577 --> 00:15:30.717 Comparison is joy. 00:15:30.747 --> 00:15:30.957 Yeah. 00:15:31.767 --> 00:15:32.187 I dunno. 00:15:32.187 --> 00:15:32.727 Philosopher. 00:15:32.727 --> 00:15:34.887 Riley can't even remember her saying. 00:15:36.037 --> 00:15:38.137 yeah, so I think it's not so great. 00:15:38.677 --> 00:15:39.067 Dave etler: Okay. 00:15:40.267 --> 00:15:41.137 Next question. 00:15:42.467 --> 00:15:43.607 I already know. 00:15:44.357 --> 00:15:47.957 That I want to do a competitive specialty, EG Opta, ortho, derm. 00:15:48.497 --> 00:15:52.367 What should I be doing in my first year to set myself up for success? 00:15:53.087 --> 00:15:53.627 Riley Behan-Bush: Cure cancer. 00:15:56.957 --> 00:15:57.737 Kidding. 00:15:59.297 --> 00:15:59.477 I 00:15:59.477 --> 00:16:00.407 Sahaana Arumugam: honestly don't know. 00:16:01.227 --> 00:16:02.537 Nicole Hines: Just doesn't want for me to answer. 00:16:04.217 --> 00:16:11.267 Mao Ye: I feel like, just relax and go shadow those specialties. 00:16:11.267 --> 00:16:13.637 If you want here to make sure that's really what you 00:16:13.637 --> 00:16:14.207 Nicole Hines: want to do. 00:16:14.987 --> 00:16:15.407 Riley Behan-Bush: Don't fail 00:16:15.407 --> 00:16:18.947 Nicole Hines: your classes, start building relationships, but with like 00:16:19.037 --> 00:16:23.867 good intentions, not just feeling like, because you have to, but with people 00:16:23.877 --> 00:16:25.307 you want to, because you want to, 00:16:26.387 --> 00:16:27.287 Dave etler: and you do want to, 00:16:27.977 --> 00:16:29.957 Riley Behan-Bush: and the summer between your first and second 00:16:29.957 --> 00:16:31.007 year, you can look for research. 00:16:31.007 --> 00:16:32.117 If you're into that kind of thing. 00:16:32.117 --> 00:16:35.297 Look for research in the specific area you're interested in going 00:16:35.297 --> 00:16:37.937 into Durham, APO, et cetera. 00:16:38.347 --> 00:16:40.177 I think that's about it all you can do for the first few. 00:16:42.652 --> 00:16:45.292 Other than carrying cancer other than curing cancer. 00:16:45.522 --> 00:16:47.322 yeah, that's, that's really, it. 00:16:48.312 --> 00:16:50.592 Every person who matches into Durham has cured cancer. 00:16:51.222 --> 00:16:55.962 Dave etler: You guys, you mentioned research and I worry that people who 00:16:55.962 --> 00:17:01.082 hear oh, research, then I've got to come up with some genius research. 00:17:01.162 --> 00:17:04.722 I got to come up with some like, really super valuable research that, 00:17:05.772 --> 00:17:07.332 you know, cures cancer or whatever. 00:17:07.822 --> 00:17:08.902 is that true? 00:17:09.142 --> 00:17:13.462 Nicole Hines: My current research is not going to cure cancer at all. 00:17:13.462 --> 00:17:17.122 I haven't seen a single patient, but I've seen hundreds of patient charts. 00:17:17.512 --> 00:17:21.862 Like you're not necessarily going to have to be in a lab doing basic 00:17:21.862 --> 00:17:23.932 research to be getting research. 00:17:23.962 --> 00:17:29.092 There's tons of opportunities and really just look for what you're interested 00:17:29.092 --> 00:17:31.902 in and faculty who are already doing. 00:17:32.737 --> 00:17:35.917 And you'll find a project that doesn't feel like constant work, 00:17:36.547 --> 00:17:39.547 Dave etler: but do you feel like the point of doing research is to make 00:17:39.547 --> 00:17:42.757 some valuable, scientific contribution while you're in medical school? 00:17:43.747 --> 00:17:45.457 Riley Behan-Bush: Ooh, that's a tough, geez. 00:17:45.457 --> 00:17:45.817 That's it? 00:17:46.147 --> 00:17:47.377 That's a deeper question. 00:17:47.947 --> 00:17:49.807 Cause I, I have feelings, but 00:17:49.867 --> 00:17:50.227 Sahaana Arumugam: they might 00:17:50.227 --> 00:17:51.097 no one: be hot takes, 00:17:53.197 --> 00:17:54.157 Sahaana Arumugam: I guess, I guess. 00:17:54.217 --> 00:17:54.517 Yeah. 00:17:54.517 --> 00:18:00.367 I feel like a lot of, not necessarily like chart review, but like sometimes there 00:18:00.367 --> 00:18:03.637 are medical students who are like doing research for the sake of doing research. 00:18:03.637 --> 00:18:07.837 And I don't think that all of it is like necessarily contributing. 00:18:07.837 --> 00:18:09.697 Like it might, I guess it depends. 00:18:09.697 --> 00:18:09.907 Right? 00:18:09.907 --> 00:18:12.877 Cause like, obviously the there's like a physician you're like involved with 00:18:12.907 --> 00:18:16.117 who thinks it's important and like is telling you to like do this thing for 00:18:16.117 --> 00:18:18.067 them, that they want the information. 00:18:18.397 --> 00:18:20.647 But I think there's a lot of instances where people are just 00:18:20.647 --> 00:18:24.667 like doing like, people are like the, like find you a project just 00:18:24.667 --> 00:18:25.777 so you can like have a project. 00:18:26.752 --> 00:18:29.682 For the sake of doing something that you can put on your resume, does 00:18:29.682 --> 00:18:30.952 it make a scientific contribution? 00:18:30.952 --> 00:18:33.892 Will the physician actually use it like who's to say? 00:18:33.922 --> 00:18:37.672 I don't, I don't think that all research is 00:18:37.672 --> 00:18:38.122 no one: meaningful. 00:18:38.122 --> 00:18:38.512 Dave etler: I don't know. 00:18:38.632 --> 00:18:41.212 Perhaps the point is to just learn how to do research 00:18:41.512 --> 00:18:44.332 Sahaana Arumugam: and that's different, but that doesn't mean that it has a 00:18:44.332 --> 00:18:45.922 scientific, meaningful contribution. 00:18:45.922 --> 00:18:48.892 It's like a training opportunity, which is valuable to that person. 00:18:48.892 --> 00:18:49.222 Sure. 00:18:49.452 --> 00:18:49.602 I 00:18:49.602 --> 00:18:52.792 Dave etler: think even, you know, I, I know that, and you guys 00:18:52.792 --> 00:18:54.712 can, you MD/PhD students can 00:18:59.122 --> 00:18:59.352 no one: well, 00:18:59.362 --> 00:19:03.712 Dave etler: I was thinking, I was thinking more in, in, you know, when people 00:19:03.712 --> 00:19:10.552 come to medical school, when you do your, your PhD phase, like it's a long. 00:19:11.657 --> 00:19:12.167 Number one. 00:19:12.167 --> 00:19:14.717 you're you're doing something and hopefully that's important, 00:19:14.717 --> 00:19:18.737 but sometimes, you know, you're, sometimes it just doesn't work the 00:19:18.737 --> 00:19:20.057 way you thought it was going to work. 00:19:20.847 --> 00:19:23.637 and maybe, you know, and so sometimes I hear it, you know, toward the 00:19:23.637 --> 00:19:26.037 end, like, oh, I didn't know. 00:19:26.217 --> 00:19:27.687 My research is garbage. 00:19:28.257 --> 00:19:31.347 Riley Behan-Bush: Well, I think the harder part too, is most people in 00:19:31.347 --> 00:19:34.617 the MD/PhD are doing some degree of like basic science research, which 00:19:34.617 --> 00:19:40.827 is quite different than what probably 90% of medical students are doing. 00:19:40.827 --> 00:19:42.297 When they say they're doing research. 00:19:42.297 --> 00:19:44.667 I would say most medical students are doing like clinical 00:19:44.847 --> 00:19:46.107 chart review based research. 00:19:46.107 --> 00:19:48.087 And please correct me if I'm like super off. 00:19:48.327 --> 00:19:51.957 And then like maybe 10% are able to get on like a basic science research 00:19:51.987 --> 00:19:57.297 project that they can continue for the four years that they're here and maybe 00:19:57.297 --> 00:19:58.467 they'll get a publication out of it. 00:19:58.467 --> 00:20:02.217 The hard part is when you're trying to do research in medical school, from what I've 00:20:02.217 --> 00:20:06.432 gathered from friends, Really the balance between finding a project that you're 00:20:06.432 --> 00:20:10.302 really passionate about, and that will train you really well or finding a project 00:20:10.302 --> 00:20:12.072 that is going to get you a publication. 00:20:12.252 --> 00:20:16.752 Because if you're thinking about competitive specialties, it's kind 00:20:16.752 --> 00:20:20.922 of sucks, but like publications are the currency, like to say that you've 00:20:20.952 --> 00:20:22.932 really done something and contributed. 00:20:23.472 --> 00:20:26.082 And should that be the case? 00:20:26.112 --> 00:20:30.522 No, because you could argue that really good clinical research should probably 00:20:30.522 --> 00:20:33.792 take longer than us summer that a medical student is able to work on it. 00:20:34.182 --> 00:20:39.492 However, that doesn't mean that the, that the currency is not weighted 00:20:39.492 --> 00:20:43.332 that way for the same reason that step shouldn't be weighted as 00:20:43.332 --> 00:20:43.812 no one: much as it is. 00:20:44.082 --> 00:20:44.442 But here's 00:20:44.442 --> 00:20:44.712 Dave etler: the thing. 00:20:44.712 --> 00:20:49.482 I mean, if you do a poster presentation, that's a public case. 00:20:50.712 --> 00:20:53.472 Nicole Hines: Counts, counts applications. 00:20:53.472 --> 00:20:53.802 Yeah. 00:20:54.132 --> 00:20:54.542 I think. 00:20:55.467 --> 00:20:56.487 And hearing all of this. 00:20:56.487 --> 00:20:58.827 And I had the experience of last summer. 00:20:58.857 --> 00:21:01.737 I did one of the summer research fellowships, and I 00:21:01.737 --> 00:21:03.117 did basic science research. 00:21:03.387 --> 00:21:08.077 And now I am looking more into a project that's we're looking at 00:21:08.077 --> 00:21:10.807 how different patients identify themselves in the medical chart. 00:21:11.267 --> 00:21:15.217 specifically gender expansive patients, because when you have, lab tests 00:21:15.217 --> 00:21:18.577 that have sex specific ranges, it's going to be impacted if you're on 00:21:18.577 --> 00:21:20.467 hormones or change your legal sex. 00:21:20.917 --> 00:21:26.677 And when I was in the basic research mindset, I didn't see as much of 00:21:26.677 --> 00:21:29.557 the value in the current research. 00:21:29.557 --> 00:21:33.787 I don't feel like there's scientific breakthroughs, but improving 00:21:33.787 --> 00:21:35.527 patient care and finding those. 00:21:36.562 --> 00:21:38.692 I think it's different people looking for different things in different 00:21:38.692 --> 00:21:42.382 kinds of research, but it does have value and putting it on your 00:21:42.622 --> 00:21:47.002 applications I'm will go and try to get a publication, but with this. 00:21:47.002 --> 00:21:50.762 But I feel like it's getting me, the relationships with people who are 00:21:50.762 --> 00:21:52.322 interested in these things that I am. 00:21:52.682 --> 00:21:56.372 And right now I find value in that more than curing 00:21:56.372 --> 00:21:57.062 Riley Behan-Bush: cancer. 00:21:58.412 --> 00:21:58.712 Yeah. 00:21:59.582 --> 00:22:01.172 Dave etler: It's also a tad more realistic. 00:22:01.472 --> 00:22:02.102 Yes, 00:22:02.612 --> 00:22:03.062 no one: yes. 00:22:03.092 --> 00:22:03.722 Just a tittle. 00:22:04.232 --> 00:22:04.412 Nicole Hines: Yeah. 00:22:04.412 --> 00:22:06.812 Riley Behan-Bush: If you're interested in going into competitive specialties 00:22:06.842 --> 00:22:10.922 and you see research as a thing, you actually really enjoy doing do it. 00:22:10.922 --> 00:22:15.032 If you don't enjoy it, go do humanities projects or volunteering 00:22:15.032 --> 00:22:16.532 projects do not do research. 00:22:16.562 --> 00:22:18.992 If you do not enjoy it, it will not. 00:22:19.712 --> 00:22:20.492 It's a bit of a sock. 00:22:20.492 --> 00:22:22.232 Like it kind of sucks at times. 00:22:22.232 --> 00:22:24.752 I really enjoy it, but it's also really hard. 00:22:25.022 --> 00:22:27.302 another thing for another time, but I think. 00:22:28.277 --> 00:22:31.787 Looking at the project that you're choosing because clinical based 00:22:31.787 --> 00:22:35.657 research is super important and it is more so in the scope of what 00:22:35.657 --> 00:22:36.917 you can complete in medical school. 00:22:37.307 --> 00:22:41.687 maybe steer clear of the basic science lab that just got the grant that is 00:22:41.687 --> 00:22:45.917 just getting a project off the ground, because that is going to be just an 00:22:45.977 --> 00:22:50.717 extra slog and probably not something you can manage to the extent you want 00:22:50.717 --> 00:22:53.567 to manage it in medical school, you may want to give more time to that 00:22:53.567 --> 00:22:56.357 project, but you're probably not going to be able to because basic science 00:22:56.357 --> 00:22:57.707 research just takes so much longer. 00:23:15.028 --> 00:23:15.838 Dave etler: Next question. 00:23:17.158 --> 00:23:20.698 How do I make friends in med school and corollary? 00:23:21.058 --> 00:23:22.108 Is it a good idea to date? 00:23:22.108 --> 00:23:22.858 My classmates? 00:23:24.658 --> 00:23:25.348 Riley Behan-Bush: That's like two fun 00:23:25.348 --> 00:23:25.978 no one: questions. 00:23:26.668 --> 00:23:29.818 Dave etler: How do you make friends in med school or med school friends, 00:23:29.818 --> 00:23:32.608 harder to find than normal friends. 00:23:32.668 --> 00:23:32.788 no one: Now 00:23:32.798 --> 00:23:33.688 Riley Behan-Bush: you suffer together. 00:23:34.708 --> 00:23:35.788 Dave etler: I think it's probably easier. 00:23:37.528 --> 00:23:38.818 Let me tell you something about friends. 00:23:40.003 --> 00:23:40.393 Pretty here. 00:23:40.393 --> 00:23:40.813 Dave's hot 00:23:40.813 --> 00:23:41.113 no one: take on. 00:23:41.983 --> 00:23:45.433 Dave etler: When you get out of med school, when you get out of college 00:23:45.433 --> 00:23:49.093 and you get out of med school, it gets a lot harder to find friends. 00:23:50.263 --> 00:23:51.823 there's just, I don't know. 00:23:51.823 --> 00:23:56.113 There's just something about like, not sharing the same 00:23:56.113 --> 00:23:57.733 experience every single day. 00:23:57.733 --> 00:24:00.253 That makes it just a little bit harder. 00:24:00.613 --> 00:24:03.103 I think it's going to be easy to find friends in med school personally. 00:24:03.133 --> 00:24:03.733 What do you think 00:24:04.393 --> 00:24:05.053 no one: I do look 00:24:05.053 --> 00:24:05.863 Riley Behan-Bush: back at my life. 00:24:05.893 --> 00:24:09.643 And I think every single friend that I have that is close to me 00:24:09.643 --> 00:24:12.853 is a friend that was made through going through hard shit together. 00:24:13.033 --> 00:24:15.403 So therefore medical school is exactly that you're going through 00:24:15.403 --> 00:24:16.423 something really tough together. 00:24:16.423 --> 00:24:19.723 And therefore you are going to really enjoy each other's company because you're 00:24:19.723 --> 00:24:21.163 all going through the same hard thing. 00:24:21.163 --> 00:24:24.853 And I think there's a lot of friendship that comes from commiserating together. 00:24:24.853 --> 00:24:29.863 So I would argue that a lot of friends are made just like studying together and being 00:24:29.863 --> 00:24:33.133 in the learning communities and saying, Hey, let's grab a drink after this exam. 00:24:33.133 --> 00:24:35.443 And just like being okay with putting yourself out there. 00:24:37.783 --> 00:24:41.323 Dave etler: I would say that's a prerequisite for being, for making friends 00:24:41.323 --> 00:24:42.513 is putting yourself out there because 00:24:42.523 --> 00:24:43.513 Nicole Hines: I felt they're easy. 00:24:43.933 --> 00:24:48.973 I think joining student groups going and jumping on your school's 00:24:48.973 --> 00:24:53.233 podcast or something great ways to meet people and make friends. 00:24:53.233 --> 00:24:57.223 I mean, most of the people I consider my good friends I've met in this room. 00:24:57.493 --> 00:24:57.643 If 00:24:57.643 --> 00:24:59.563 Dave etler: you're a school, if you're in med school right now and your med school 00:24:59.563 --> 00:25:03.043 doesn't have a podcast, make a podcast or. 00:25:04.928 --> 00:25:05.258 no one: quit 00:25:08.708 --> 00:25:09.488 Dave etler: hypothetical days. 00:25:09.488 --> 00:25:10.508 That's a stupid school. 00:25:11.798 --> 00:25:12.968 Riley Behan-Bush: Quit and come to Carver. 00:25:14.108 --> 00:25:14.828 no one: We don't take transport 00:25:17.468 --> 00:25:17.858 Dave etler: too bad. 00:25:17.858 --> 00:25:18.428 no one: You made the wrong. 00:25:20.198 --> 00:25:21.338 Um, what was 00:25:21.338 --> 00:25:21.938 Dave etler: the other question? 00:25:21.938 --> 00:25:23.468 Is it okay to just indicate a date? 00:25:23.858 --> 00:25:24.998 Isn't a good idea. 00:25:25.388 --> 00:25:26.108 I don't know if that's a good 00:25:26.108 --> 00:25:28.268 Sahaana Arumugam: idea, but I think it's a fine idea. 00:25:28.298 --> 00:25:31.658 I mean, there's plenty of people in our year who like met each other in medical 00:25:31.658 --> 00:25:35.228 school and are like getting married now they're getting married, they're engaged. 00:25:35.228 --> 00:25:37.418 There's like plenty of people who get to engage on marriage. 00:25:37.438 --> 00:25:37.688 Yeah. 00:25:37.688 --> 00:25:38.228 So I think. 00:25:39.218 --> 00:25:39.788 Yeah for them. 00:25:39.788 --> 00:25:42.128 That was a good idea for you who can say right? 00:25:43.868 --> 00:25:44.558 Riley Behan-Bush: We don't know you. 00:25:45.008 --> 00:25:46.418 I think for my personal self, 00:25:47.618 --> 00:25:50.558 Dave etler: it might not be grateful for your med school date. 00:25:51.458 --> 00:25:53.918 Riley Behan-Bush: I feel like I've thought about this a lot, not in the context. 00:25:56.108 --> 00:25:57.608 relationship for six years now. 00:25:57.608 --> 00:25:58.688 And I'm currently married. 00:25:59.008 --> 00:25:59.578 regardless. 00:25:59.578 --> 00:26:03.898 I like think about it because I wonder if it's a good idea, because I'd watched my 00:26:03.898 --> 00:26:05.218 husband who had gone through law school. 00:26:05.218 --> 00:26:10.408 He had law school friends date, and it seems like maybe this is not the case, 00:26:10.408 --> 00:26:15.118 but from an outside perspective, and this is all like me just spit balling here. 00:26:15.328 --> 00:26:18.418 I feel like you'd be talking about medicine, like way more than I would 00:26:18.418 --> 00:26:21.328 ever want to talk about medicine within the confines of when I go home. 00:26:21.448 --> 00:26:22.828 So I do wonder. 00:26:23.908 --> 00:26:26.848 Like, it's not a bad idea, but just like, make sure you have boundaries like that. 00:26:26.848 --> 00:26:30.778 You're not literally only studying together, only talking medicine together. 00:26:30.928 --> 00:26:35.998 Like that just sounds like bad relationship time, like boring. 00:26:36.028 --> 00:26:36.988 I was actually thinking 00:26:36.988 --> 00:26:37.978 Nicole Hines: about this this morning. 00:26:37.978 --> 00:26:38.848 For what reason? 00:26:38.848 --> 00:26:42.688 I have no clue, but I came into school engaged as well. 00:26:42.718 --> 00:26:46.498 So I never once looked at my classmates as potential partners. 00:26:47.158 --> 00:26:50.578 It's really, it's really weird to sit around and have classmates talking 00:26:50.578 --> 00:26:54.298 about like, oh, there's only this many single people, or like talking 00:26:54.298 --> 00:26:58.468 about classmates in that regard because my brain isn't in that mode. 00:26:58.948 --> 00:27:02.788 but this morning I was thinking about how much I would hate for 00:27:02.788 --> 00:27:04.048 my husband to be in medicine. 00:27:04.408 --> 00:27:07.258 Like I really value that we're in completely different things. 00:27:07.258 --> 00:27:10.048 He's in accounting and I've 00:27:10.948 --> 00:27:11.758 Riley Behan-Bush: somebody I worked for 00:27:11.758 --> 00:27:15.028 Nicole Hines: talked about when she was in med school with her husband and. 00:27:16.268 --> 00:27:16.898 She was always 00:27:16.898 --> 00:27:18.878 Riley Behan-Bush: doing great, but he was always doing better. 00:27:19.328 --> 00:27:22.388 I was gonna say, is the comparison comparison is the thief of joy. 00:27:22.568 --> 00:27:25.448 Second time I've said it and it's, I didn't get 00:27:25.448 --> 00:27:28.238 Nicole Hines: the vibe that like he would rub it in or anything, but it 00:27:28.238 --> 00:27:30.968 still made her feel a little less. 00:27:31.418 --> 00:27:33.638 And I just wouldn't want to deal with that. 00:27:33.638 --> 00:27:37.778 Some people would probably thrive off of maybe a competitive nature or 00:27:38.078 --> 00:27:43.148 just feeling like medicine is more of their life, but that's not for me. 00:27:45.478 --> 00:27:45.598 no one: Yeah. 00:27:46.218 --> 00:27:48.018 Married people wondering about the, 00:27:49.348 --> 00:27:52.888 Dave etler: I would love to hear from med students who are married to another 00:27:52.888 --> 00:27:58.373 med students or med students, Other med students, how they negotiate that. 00:27:58.373 --> 00:28:01.283 Cause I, cause my first instinct was just be like, well, just don't talk about it. 00:28:01.313 --> 00:28:01.463 You know? 00:28:01.463 --> 00:28:01.673 Just 00:28:01.683 --> 00:28:03.383 no one: like, I 00:28:03.383 --> 00:28:05.813 Dave etler: know like that's completely unreasonable. 00:28:05.813 --> 00:28:08.213 Like, you know, what do you do when you get a bad grade? 00:28:08.213 --> 00:28:08.663 You'd be like, 00:28:09.653 --> 00:28:09.983 no one: well, 00:28:09.983 --> 00:28:13.853 Riley Behan-Bush: it's like when I go home to my husband, like, I'll explain my dad. 00:28:13.883 --> 00:28:14.723 He'll be like, how's your day. 00:28:14.723 --> 00:28:15.983 And I'm like, yeah, it was good. 00:28:15.983 --> 00:28:17.543 But then I think about it in my head. 00:28:17.543 --> 00:28:19.613 I'm like, I don't really want to go into the whole thing cause I'm going to have 00:28:19.613 --> 00:28:21.713 to like explain words and like terms. 00:28:22.013 --> 00:28:23.873 And then we, neither of us just talks about each other's jobs. 00:28:23.903 --> 00:28:24.863 It's great. 00:28:24.893 --> 00:28:26.693 Like we say day was great. 00:28:26.693 --> 00:28:30.023 He'll tell me like a little bit about what he was doing, but not much. 00:28:30.053 --> 00:28:32.543 And I'm like, this is the perfect amount of detail for both 00:28:32.543 --> 00:28:33.413 no one: of us right now. 00:28:35.543 --> 00:28:36.743 Riley Behan-Bush: Can we talk about our shows that we're gonna watch. 00:28:37.793 --> 00:28:38.783 That's my advice. 00:28:39.623 --> 00:28:42.113 Dave etler: I think it's a fine, I think it's okay to date your classmates. 00:28:43.693 --> 00:28:44.093 no one: All of them. 00:28:47.303 --> 00:28:48.473 Riley Behan-Bush: Maybe not at the same time. 00:28:48.533 --> 00:28:53.213 Hey, it's called networking, but maybe networking, expanding your network. 00:28:53.253 --> 00:28:54.113 They're all going to be residents 00:28:54.113 --> 00:28:55.013 no one: in attendance someday. 00:28:55.583 --> 00:28:56.093 Oh God. 00:28:58.313 --> 00:29:01.523 Dave etler: have you, have you dated any classmates on, are you, are you, are 00:29:01.523 --> 00:29:02.183 Sahaana Arumugam: you involved? 00:29:03.203 --> 00:29:07.233 Are you involved relationship before I even came into med school at the time? 00:29:07.253 --> 00:29:07.363 And 00:29:07.363 --> 00:29:10.373 Mao Ye: you dated any classmates seeing a relationship. 00:29:10.463 --> 00:29:10.913 Okay. 00:29:11.903 --> 00:29:12.983 Dave etler: Wrong, wrong question. 00:29:12.983 --> 00:29:14.033 To bring up on this show. 00:29:15.603 --> 00:29:18.153 okay, next question. 00:29:18.183 --> 00:29:21.123 I'm not sure what specialty I want to enter. 00:29:21.153 --> 00:29:23.583 How do I explore different specialty options? 00:29:23.583 --> 00:29:24.963 How will I know what's right for me? 00:29:27.153 --> 00:29:30.663 no one: Go to school, literally 00:29:32.583 --> 00:29:36.363 Riley Behan-Bush: school show up every day, attend interest groups. 00:29:37.233 --> 00:29:40.503 I have been my third year, almost fourth, and I don't know what I'm doing, 00:29:40.713 --> 00:29:42.123 Dave etler: but you're in your PhD phase now. 00:29:42.213 --> 00:29:45.753 It's like, you don't have you put that off for a long time, 00:29:46.053 --> 00:29:47.343 but actually when you get back, I 00:29:47.343 --> 00:29:48.813 no one: would like the answer to this 00:29:48.813 --> 00:29:50.553 Riley Behan-Bush: question because I'm like, how do I explore 00:29:50.553 --> 00:29:51.633 this different specialties? 00:29:52.893 --> 00:29:53.223 Dave etler: Mt. 00:29:53.223 --> 00:29:56.103 D D do you have a specialty that you've been thinking about 00:29:56.103 --> 00:29:56.703 Mao Ye: as an Amazon? 00:29:56.853 --> 00:29:57.153 No. 00:29:57.153 --> 00:29:58.893 I keep my mind open. 00:29:58.903 --> 00:30:05.983 That's where every senior classmate told me, you know, just make sure I, also I had 00:30:05.983 --> 00:30:10.413 a mentor, who was a general surgeon here, but, he just said in the enjoy everything. 00:30:11.253 --> 00:30:13.623 And at the end of the day, you'll know. 00:30:13.953 --> 00:30:14.133 Yeah. 00:30:14.163 --> 00:30:15.093 Hope I will now. 00:30:15.123 --> 00:30:18.813 Cause I'm also a little anxious to be honest, like what I want to do. 00:30:18.813 --> 00:30:19.173 Dave etler: Sure. 00:30:19.743 --> 00:30:23.333 You know, it's funny, you, I think there are people who get to that third 00:30:23.333 --> 00:30:25.613 year when people start talking about, okay, when are you going to be, what 00:30:25.613 --> 00:30:26.453 are you going to be when you grow up? 00:30:26.453 --> 00:30:26.933 What are you gonna be? 00:30:26.933 --> 00:30:33.413 And they're not quite sure, but my experience is that I don't know, 00:30:33.413 --> 00:30:37.343 they all match or apply to something. 00:30:37.643 --> 00:30:37.673 I 00:30:37.673 --> 00:30:39.263 Riley Behan-Bush: feel like most people get to the end of their 00:30:39.263 --> 00:30:42.113 quarrier from talking to friends that are going through the process 00:30:42.113 --> 00:30:43.673 of figuring out what they want to do. 00:30:44.153 --> 00:30:47.123 They usually get to the end of their core year and are left with maybe, 00:30:47.963 --> 00:30:51.323 hopefully one, maybe two or three that they're really interested in. 00:30:51.563 --> 00:30:53.963 And then they can start to figure it out from there. 00:30:53.963 --> 00:30:58.553 I know people right now that are still like 80% sure what they're applying to 00:30:58.553 --> 00:31:03.593 and a few months, but that's, it's okay to be 80% sure at the end of it, the 00:31:03.653 --> 00:31:06.623 hope is you get to the end of your core year and you're like, I liked everything. 00:31:06.623 --> 00:31:08.063 Now you get like more choices. 00:31:08.798 --> 00:31:12.248 Maybe you'll find that the lifestyle of one appeals to you more than the lifestyle 00:31:12.248 --> 00:31:17.378 of another and the older you get as you do, when you're in school for four years, 00:31:17.378 --> 00:31:20.348 you're going to start to realize your priorities shift as you go through it. 00:31:20.348 --> 00:31:23.168 And so Korea is like the perfect time to just start to figure 00:31:23.168 --> 00:31:24.548 out what you're actually doing. 00:31:24.608 --> 00:31:26.768 And for the listeners core year is when you do all of your 00:31:26.768 --> 00:31:29.138 clinical rotations that are 00:31:29.438 --> 00:31:31.538 Dave etler: whatever your school has decided are the 00:31:31.538 --> 00:31:33.578 key ones, usually primary care 00:31:35.108 --> 00:31:37.808 no one: surgery, OB psych 00:31:38.918 --> 00:31:41.528 Dave etler: neurology, neuro, I think in our case 00:31:41.648 --> 00:31:45.068 Sahaana Arumugam: now we have, ER, also changed a bunch for 00:31:45.068 --> 00:31:46.358 every year in the past few years. 00:31:46.358 --> 00:31:46.688 So, 00:31:47.008 --> 00:31:49.528 Dave etler: and I can never leave it alone so that I can 00:31:49.528 --> 00:31:51.208 remember what those things are. 00:31:51.208 --> 00:31:52.348 But yeah. 00:31:52.498 --> 00:31:56.218 Nicole Hines: I think Riley talking about lifestyle was really important to me. 00:31:58.063 --> 00:31:59.143 I'll get this inkling. 00:31:59.173 --> 00:32:03.823 Oh, maybe I'd be interested in this, but then I see a little what it's actually 00:32:03.823 --> 00:32:07.423 like and like, no way am I going to do this day in and day out forever. 00:32:07.783 --> 00:32:12.973 And then for me, I walk into where one of the pathology specialties are, 00:32:12.973 --> 00:32:14.293 and I'm surrounded by microscopes. 00:32:14.293 --> 00:32:17.803 And I just feel like I'm in heaven or wherever you're the most euphoric. 00:32:17.833 --> 00:32:24.163 So you're not going to know unless you get your feet on the ground and you're not 00:32:24.163 --> 00:32:26.803 going to have had your feet on the ground before your first day of med school. 00:32:27.133 --> 00:32:33.323 Dave etler: Also just resolve, to explore as many options as you can outside the 00:32:33.323 --> 00:32:35.253 curriculum, when you're able to do that. 00:32:35.253 --> 00:32:41.293 So, you know, if there is a break, ask to shadow, somebody, some 00:32:41.293 --> 00:32:43.843 special somebody in some specialty you've never shattered before. 00:32:44.683 --> 00:32:50.083 Even, you know, shadow people who aren't physicians, but who work in that, in that 00:32:50.083 --> 00:32:54.693 field, you know, nurses, pharmacists, you know, just put yourself out there 00:32:54.693 --> 00:33:01.063 so that, you know, what it's like from all angles of that, specialty and, yeah, 00:33:01.093 --> 00:33:03.073 just sort of try to take it all in. 00:33:03.073 --> 00:33:09.673 And I think one thing that sometimes people might make a mistake on is deciding 00:33:11.083 --> 00:33:17.593 to not go into a specialty because of the people you met in that specialty. 00:33:18.403 --> 00:33:18.583 I 00:33:18.583 --> 00:33:22.033 Riley Behan-Bush: would love more like, experiences about this because it would 00:33:22.033 --> 00:33:24.553 be so hard for me as a person to be with. 00:33:25.983 --> 00:33:28.443 Just crappy people, a whole rotation. 00:33:28.443 --> 00:33:31.173 And then also, still say, no, I actually really enjoyed the 00:33:31.173 --> 00:33:33.483 work and I want to go into this because I would have a hard time. 00:33:33.933 --> 00:33:35.823 Assuming those people are not like that. 00:33:35.853 --> 00:33:36.303 Literally 00:33:36.303 --> 00:33:36.843 Dave etler: everywhere I go. 00:33:36.843 --> 00:33:37.083 Yeah. 00:33:37.113 --> 00:33:38.013 I mean, it's really hard. 00:33:38.013 --> 00:33:41.003 I mean, like it's tempting to be like, well, all surgeons are dicks. 00:33:42.003 --> 00:33:45.063 But, I mean, clearly, clearly that's not the case. 00:33:45.063 --> 00:33:47.823 I mean, you know, it's not the same everywhere you go. 00:33:47.823 --> 00:33:51.123 And it's probably not the same, even within the department that you rotated in. 00:33:51.123 --> 00:33:52.113 You probably, we just got 00:33:52.283 --> 00:33:54.243 Riley Behan-Bush: just the resident you've got for that specific 00:33:54.243 --> 00:33:54.483 Dave etler: week. 00:33:56.283 --> 00:33:57.003 Bad luck. 00:33:57.003 --> 00:33:57.123 no one: You 00:33:57.123 --> 00:33:58.863 Sahaana Arumugam: know, it's hard though, to like parse 00:33:58.863 --> 00:34:00.453 that apart because that light 00:34:00.453 --> 00:34:03.153 no one: color, so much of your experience is like the way people treat you. 00:34:03.253 --> 00:34:05.893 Dave etler: I think people make decisions based on that more often than 00:34:06.463 --> 00:34:10.153 Riley Behan-Bush: people make decisions on the, like, I want to S I want to call it 00:34:10.153 --> 00:34:11.863 like the soft side of those specialties. 00:34:11.863 --> 00:34:16.243 Like the soft skills, like what is happening in the lifestyle, both when 00:34:16.243 --> 00:34:17.413 you're at work and outside of work. 00:34:17.473 --> 00:34:21.733 I think that is like way more of a factor for people once they get to 00:34:21.733 --> 00:34:23.203 their core year than I even thought. 00:34:23.203 --> 00:34:24.913 I think a lot of people enter medical school. 00:34:25.668 --> 00:34:28.608 What am I scientifically most interested in? 00:34:28.848 --> 00:34:31.818 I think once you finally start to do rotations, you start to realize 00:34:32.058 --> 00:34:35.448 who do I actually want to spend every day with which patients do 00:34:35.448 --> 00:34:36.648 I want to spend every day with? 00:34:36.948 --> 00:34:40.008 Do I want to wake up at this time every day? 00:34:40.068 --> 00:34:44.058 Or maybe you do because you really like that science and that's what I've 00:34:44.058 --> 00:34:48.618 realized over the time that I've been here is the stuff that I do outside 00:34:48.618 --> 00:34:54.858 of school has become wildly more like important in my brain when I choose 00:34:54.858 --> 00:34:56.478 which specialty I want to go into. 00:34:56.628 --> 00:35:00.648 And the people that I spend every day with will matter a lot to me, because 00:35:00.648 --> 00:35:04.728 I want to make sure that I really enjoy like the interactions that I've 00:35:04.728 --> 00:35:08.418 having with people, not just going into something for cool science, because 00:35:08.418 --> 00:35:12.378 if that was the case, I think everyone would end up in like, I don't know. 00:35:12.378 --> 00:35:14.508 What's cool science neurosurgery probably pretty cool. 00:35:14.508 --> 00:35:17.478 I don't know much about neurosurgery, but it's probably pretty neat. 00:35:17.478 --> 00:35:17.538 Yeah. 00:35:18.663 --> 00:35:21.183 People don't because people like people and people want 00:35:21.183 --> 00:35:22.083 their time outside of work. 00:35:22.653 --> 00:35:22.773 I 00:35:22.773 --> 00:35:25.833 Nicole Hines: just decided I'm going to call pathology pretty science, 00:35:26.103 --> 00:35:27.693 as long as it's not gross pathology. 00:35:28.503 --> 00:35:31.523 I don't know if anybody else finds like what you can see under the 00:35:31.523 --> 00:35:32.973 microscope when it stained does pretty. 00:35:33.003 --> 00:35:35.793 Dave etler: But I think you might be finding just the right thing for you. 00:35:36.003 --> 00:35:36.243 I mean, 00:35:36.243 --> 00:35:38.013 Nicole Hines: the first time I was on this podcast, you talked 00:35:38.013 --> 00:35:41.583 about the pathologists alone in a dark room with their microscope. 00:35:41.583 --> 00:35:43.953 And I was like, I guess I'm going to go into pathology. 00:35:45.633 --> 00:35:47.403 Riley Behan-Bush: I guess that's exactly where I want to be. 00:35:47.853 --> 00:35:50.193 Nicole Hines: See me in a few years when I'm not in pathology 00:35:51.753 --> 00:35:54.313 Riley Behan-Bush: because you loved the people on neurosurgery, right? 00:35:55.323 --> 00:35:55.593 Mao Ye: Yeah. 00:35:55.623 --> 00:35:58.233 Also, I went to those match panels. 00:35:58.293 --> 00:36:02.633 now when told me a story, she's like, you know, when you choose 00:36:02.633 --> 00:36:05.033 a specialty, nothing's perfect. 00:36:05.393 --> 00:36:09.683 You have deal with the perfect aspect of it. 00:36:09.683 --> 00:36:11.483 And then the imperfect aspect of it. 00:36:11.753 --> 00:36:12.893 If you can accept that. 00:36:13.823 --> 00:36:16.253 Maybe your life won't be too bad. 00:36:17.183 --> 00:36:17.513 Riley Behan-Bush: How does 00:36:17.513 --> 00:36:18.053 Dave etler: great advice? 00:36:18.353 --> 00:36:21.323 I, yeah, I mean, this is kind of advice for anybody. 00:36:21.683 --> 00:36:25.763 I mean, there's no perfect world that you're going to live in. 00:36:25.763 --> 00:36:28.763 So, you know, I don't know. 00:36:28.793 --> 00:36:31.163 Like, I always feel that like, love what you do and you'll 00:36:31.163 --> 00:36:32.453 never work a day in your life. 00:36:32.453 --> 00:36:33.593 And I'm like, you know what? 00:36:33.653 --> 00:36:34.943 That is totally not true. 00:36:34.943 --> 00:36:35.483 Shut up. 00:36:36.413 --> 00:36:36.563 no one: And 00:36:36.563 --> 00:36:38.873 Dave etler: that's why I think it's because you can love what you do. 00:36:38.873 --> 00:36:42.373 And still have days where it's like, Ugh, I hate this. 00:36:42.803 --> 00:36:44.813 Riley Behan-Bush: And that's why I feel like for the person who's asking, how 00:36:44.813 --> 00:36:47.663 do I figure out which specialty I want to go into in the first couple of years? 00:36:47.663 --> 00:36:49.823 Like do things outside of medicine. 00:36:50.243 --> 00:36:51.353 Do you love rock climbing? 00:36:51.353 --> 00:36:53.203 Well, you're going to need some time off to go rock climbing. 00:36:53.213 --> 00:36:56.123 Cause you can't do that in Iowa or probably wherever you are. 00:36:56.423 --> 00:36:58.283 So just figure out what you really enjoy. 00:36:58.313 --> 00:36:59.093 Do you love travel? 00:36:59.093 --> 00:37:03.263 We'll make sure you kind of choose and consider that within your considerations. 00:37:04.313 --> 00:37:07.583 Exploring life outside and remembering that you're a young person in your 00:37:07.583 --> 00:37:09.143 twenties trying to enjoy life. 00:37:09.143 --> 00:37:12.293 Like that's going to be well not everyone's, that's a great point. 00:37:12.293 --> 00:37:13.073 Thank you so much. 00:37:13.153 --> 00:37:16.483 teens, twenties, thirties, forties, whenever you are fifties. 00:37:16.723 --> 00:37:18.613 I don't know how old our oldest medical students are. 00:37:18.703 --> 00:37:20.743 Sahaana Arumugam: I think they're in their forties, but it can be any age, 00:37:21.883 --> 00:37:24.373 Riley Behan-Bush: any age at that time, because they was going to 00:37:24.373 --> 00:37:25.993 be a failure medical students. 00:37:27.403 --> 00:37:29.563 Dave etler: I keep threatening, threatening admissions. 00:37:29.563 --> 00:37:30.913 I'm like, I'm gonna apply one of these days. 00:37:32.533 --> 00:37:35.323 I think then you're gonna, then you're gonna have to make a real hard choice. 00:37:37.213 --> 00:37:38.023 Yeah, exactly. 00:37:38.023 --> 00:37:38.773 They're going to be like, oh 00:37:38.773 --> 00:37:39.913 Nicole Hines: shit about though. 00:37:39.913 --> 00:37:43.353 Like, don't stop living just because you're in medical school because yeah. 00:37:43.353 --> 00:37:45.823 You can make it through those four years and have a lot of success, 00:37:45.823 --> 00:37:49.123 but you also forgot about four years of life outside of it. 00:37:50.533 --> 00:37:50.983 Exactly. 00:37:50.983 --> 00:37:53.233 You're going to have to find some point where you can find a balance. 00:37:53.233 --> 00:37:54.193 So start now. 00:38:09.404 --> 00:38:10.424 Dave etler: Where should I live? 00:38:11.144 --> 00:38:12.224 Should I live with roommates? 00:38:12.224 --> 00:38:13.274 My family's nearby. 00:38:13.274 --> 00:38:13.814 Should I live with. 00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:17.639 How long of a commute should I have, do I need a car? 00:38:18.569 --> 00:38:19.859 no one: Where are you going to medical school? 00:38:20.999 --> 00:38:21.119 I 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:22.239 Dave etler: mean, that's, yeah, there's a lot of 00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:26.489 Sahaana Arumugam: fun if you're paying for medical school, like from loans, 00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:29.459 and if you have a good relationship with your family, it's like not a 00:38:29.459 --> 00:38:32.399 terrible idea to save a ton of money and just live with them because 00:38:32.669 --> 00:38:34.469 loans are paid back with interest. 00:38:34.499 --> 00:38:37.979 It's not like you took 10,000 out and then now you owe 10,000. 00:38:38.369 --> 00:38:39.149 That's not how they work. 00:38:39.179 --> 00:38:39.689 So, 00:38:39.929 --> 00:38:41.309 Riley Behan-Bush: and usually you have to take out more 00:38:41.309 --> 00:38:43.159 loans for the living expenses. 00:38:43.469 --> 00:38:44.879 It could be really 00:38:44.879 --> 00:38:45.169 Sahaana Arumugam: great. 00:38:45.209 --> 00:38:47.819 So, but obviously everyone's situation is different and like 00:38:47.819 --> 00:38:50.249 depends on your relationship with your family and how far that is. 00:38:50.359 --> 00:38:54.799 I think you end up doing more maybe late nights or like weekend study things or 00:38:54.799 --> 00:38:59.659 like interest groups in the evening, maybe on campus then you might foresee. 00:38:59.659 --> 00:39:04.459 So having an easy way, you're either living on a bus route or getting like 00:39:04.879 --> 00:39:08.809 a weekend pass, or if you do have a car, like somewhere that's drivable 00:39:08.839 --> 00:39:10.489 living somewhere drivable or walkable. 00:39:11.299 --> 00:39:12.349 Definitely going to be convenient. 00:39:12.349 --> 00:39:15.289 Cause you will have like mornings during some clinic rotations where 00:39:15.289 --> 00:39:17.149 you have to be here at like five. 00:39:17.149 --> 00:39:19.609 And like, I don't know about where you live, but in Iowa 00:39:19.609 --> 00:39:20.869 city, there's no buses at 00:39:20.869 --> 00:39:21.109 no one: five 00:39:21.109 --> 00:39:21.469 Dave etler: in the morning. 00:39:21.799 --> 00:39:22.249 Also. 00:39:22.909 --> 00:39:27.379 like for instance, in our family medicine rotation, you could end up like some, 00:39:28.069 --> 00:39:31.279 yeah, you could end up in some part of Iowa that you didn't anticipate. 00:39:31.279 --> 00:39:32.359 And so you're going to need a car. 00:39:32.839 --> 00:39:38.539 there is one caveat I would say to living with parents and that's that you are going 00:39:38.539 --> 00:39:40.759 to need to manage their expectations. 00:39:41.899 --> 00:39:47.119 if you don't feel capable of being like mom, dad, here's the thing. 00:39:48.079 --> 00:39:50.599 you're you can't bother me. 00:39:53.809 --> 00:39:56.329 Riley Behan-Bush: No, you're really good at boundaries to be able to, 00:39:56.899 --> 00:39:59.359 Dave etler: I am not going to be, I know I live with you, but I'm not 00:39:59.359 --> 00:40:03.499 going to be able to, you know, go on vacation and I'm not going to be able 00:40:03.499 --> 00:40:05.659 to, you know, go visit my sister. 00:40:06.424 --> 00:40:09.424 When you guys are going to go visit your sister, like those days are over. 00:40:11.074 --> 00:40:16.264 I mean, really, I feel like it's terribly important to manage expectations. 00:40:16.514 --> 00:40:17.354 in that situation, 00:40:17.534 --> 00:40:20.864 Riley Behan-Bush: even if you live with a roommate who's not in medical school 00:40:20.864 --> 00:40:24.704 or not in just a graduate program in general, like if you have a roommate 00:40:24.704 --> 00:40:28.274 that's just like living their best life working, you have, they have 00:40:28.274 --> 00:40:31.754 to understand that you can't just go get mimosas on a Tuesday morning. 00:40:32.144 --> 00:40:34.334 Sahaana Arumugam: It makes you sad and jealous to live with something like that. 00:40:34.334 --> 00:40:35.234 So I would not 00:40:35.234 --> 00:40:35.894 no one: recommend 00:40:36.644 --> 00:40:38.174 Dave etler: do you go get mimosas on Tuesday? 00:40:38.174 --> 00:40:41.324 That should be part of your most of us on Tuesday morning. 00:40:41.384 --> 00:40:41.954 Oh, you do. 00:40:42.074 --> 00:40:42.704 Sorry. 00:40:43.274 --> 00:40:43.724 no one: You're out. 00:40:43.754 --> 00:40:44.264 Riley Behan-Bush: You're out. 00:40:44.984 --> 00:40:45.134 I 00:40:45.134 --> 00:40:49.574 Nicole Hines: think for like where you live, there are a number of, married 00:40:49.574 --> 00:40:53.384 people who have kids who have chosen to live about 20 minutes away because 00:40:53.384 --> 00:40:58.749 to buy a house in one of the smaller surrounding communities, it was cheaper. 00:40:59.019 --> 00:41:02.019 And so they choose to do those, those commutes. 00:41:02.019 --> 00:41:05.969 And you don't have to worry about bus routes at that point, but, it's 00:41:05.969 --> 00:41:09.569 really gonna depend on what school and like what your family situation is. 00:41:09.569 --> 00:41:13.109 Are you a single person who can live at home and tolerate your family? 00:41:13.469 --> 00:41:14.999 Do you have a new family that you're bringing 00:41:14.999 --> 00:41:15.509 Dave etler: with you? 00:41:15.899 --> 00:41:21.269 Are you living in, I don't know, San Francisco and maybe there's 00:41:21.569 --> 00:41:23.219 absolutely no goddamn way. 00:41:23.219 --> 00:41:24.059 You're going to live it. 00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:27.209 You know, you're going to be able to afford to have your own place and 00:41:27.209 --> 00:41:28.289 get a car and all this kind of stuff. 00:41:28.289 --> 00:41:30.539 While you're in med school, you're going to suck it up 00:41:30.539 --> 00:41:31.319 Riley Behan-Bush: and live with your family. 00:41:31.619 --> 00:41:32.459 We're all thoughts too. 00:41:32.459 --> 00:41:36.659 Like as far as proximity to the school, especially if you're at something like a 00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:38.549 university of Iowa or generally just like. 00:41:39.359 --> 00:41:42.809 A place where the town itself is essentially like surrounded 00:41:42.809 --> 00:41:43.589 by the college campus. 00:41:43.589 --> 00:41:45.419 Like it's very much a college town. 00:41:45.749 --> 00:41:49.799 You're going to have really close, close access to housing 00:41:49.799 --> 00:41:51.239 kind of near the medical school. 00:41:51.629 --> 00:41:56.549 But you also may be kind of surrounded by people who are still an undergrad 00:41:56.549 --> 00:41:59.369 or graduate school are very much still in the college mindset. 00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:03.569 Whereas if you want to maybe live a little bit further from the medical school, 00:42:03.569 --> 00:42:08.219 you might actually, for me, for example, I wanted that separation from school 00:42:08.219 --> 00:42:12.599 because I wanted to feel as though it was a job I wanted to be like, I can go home 00:42:12.809 --> 00:42:14.459 and kind of forget the world around me. 00:42:14.459 --> 00:42:19.469 Whereas if you live closer, it really does still feel like you are in college because 00:42:19.469 --> 00:42:21.359 of just the housing that is available. 00:42:21.659 --> 00:42:24.149 Usually closer to the school you're going to, so. 00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:26.369 Think about that in your brain. 00:42:26.429 --> 00:42:30.329 Are you okay with still feeling like you're right in the middle of a campus 00:42:30.329 --> 00:42:33.989 or would you rather have some of that separation because maybe you've worked 00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:37.619 in the past and you really want to still see this as a job, or maybe you just 00:42:37.619 --> 00:42:42.719 like that separation from undergrads in the college campus lifestyle. 00:42:43.259 --> 00:42:46.709 And because a lot of towns will have sort of two tiers, the one that's 00:42:46.709 --> 00:42:50.819 like college and grad school housing, and then the one that is still young 00:42:50.819 --> 00:42:54.089 people, but it also may be mixed with maybe some other young people. 00:42:54.606 --> 00:42:54.906 Mao Ye: Yeah. 00:42:54.936 --> 00:42:56.916 I also want to add a story. 00:42:56.946 --> 00:42:57.936 So I'm Emma. 00:42:57.936 --> 00:43:02.496 I am one, I know one of my classmates, she lives literally two hours away 00:43:02.496 --> 00:43:05.676 from here and she commutes every day. 00:43:06.036 --> 00:43:10.026 And, the reason is because, she just got engaged to her fiance last year. 00:43:10.056 --> 00:43:10.776 So last summer. 00:43:10.776 --> 00:43:13.416 So by now they've been engaged for a year now. 00:43:13.446 --> 00:43:16.956 I think they're getting married this summer, but the reason why, why 00:43:16.956 --> 00:43:20.286 she wants to commute every day was because she wants to see her fiance. 00:43:20.466 --> 00:43:20.826 Sure. 00:43:21.126 --> 00:43:22.236 NSL it's like the 00:43:22.236 --> 00:43:23.436 Dave etler: sacrifice she's 00:43:23.436 --> 00:43:26.016 Mao Ye: willing to make four hours everyday spent our road. 00:43:26.016 --> 00:43:27.126 I don't know how she does it. 00:43:27.126 --> 00:43:28.896 I think she's three doing great. 00:43:29.196 --> 00:43:30.576 Just class wise, you know, but 00:43:30.936 --> 00:43:31.296 Dave etler: she did it. 00:43:31.296 --> 00:43:33.456 She listens to all her lectures on the drive. 00:43:34.476 --> 00:43:35.316 That that would be good. 00:43:36.636 --> 00:43:39.336 I was going to say the other thing, the other thing that I've heard of as 00:43:39.336 --> 00:43:43.486 far as living situations go is people buying, You know, condos to live in 00:43:43.486 --> 00:43:48.766 while they're here and maybe hoping that the, the market will move such that they 00:43:48.766 --> 00:43:50.596 actually make money when they leave. 00:43:50.626 --> 00:43:51.106 I don't know if that's, 00:43:51.406 --> 00:43:53.266 Nicole Hines: this is actually what my family did. 00:43:53.266 --> 00:43:57.826 My parents, my mom saw the price of what I was going to be paying each month for 00:43:57.826 --> 00:43:59.536 rent when I was originally moving here. 00:43:59.866 --> 00:44:02.986 And all of a sudden it turned into a business opportunity for her. 00:44:03.166 --> 00:44:10.396 And, so she worked with me to pick out a condo here that she bought and me and 00:44:10.396 --> 00:44:12.326 my husband pay rent to her for that. 00:44:12.426 --> 00:44:17.166 but then you have to manage expectations with family and oh, you have a guest room. 00:44:17.166 --> 00:44:23.316 That's my room, or, you know, those kinds of things and mixing business and family. 00:44:24.006 --> 00:44:26.226 So it is a thing that I've heard of other 00:44:26.226 --> 00:44:28.176 Riley Behan-Bush: people doing, but be aware that I probably know 00:44:28.176 --> 00:44:31.776 some other, like people who are moving into like family owned 00:44:31.776 --> 00:44:33.006 condos or something, especially. 00:44:33.741 --> 00:44:35.841 Fans of the school you go to. 00:44:35.841 --> 00:44:38.331 I know a lot of people who were like Iowa fans, and so they like 00:44:38.341 --> 00:44:39.261 to come to the football games. 00:44:39.441 --> 00:44:39.741 Okay. 00:44:39.771 --> 00:44:43.071 Manage expectations, because that also might mean that they're throwing parties 00:44:43.311 --> 00:44:45.891 seven out of the fall, Saturdays. 00:44:45.891 --> 00:44:47.691 Like they might be there every weekend. 00:44:47.931 --> 00:44:52.311 But I think it's, I would say in the like longer degree programs, like the 00:44:52.311 --> 00:44:56.751 MD/PhD, it's pretty common for people to like consider buying condos or 00:44:56.751 --> 00:44:58.401 houses because they're going to be here 00:44:58.401 --> 00:44:59.901 Dave etler: for, for so long. 00:44:59.901 --> 00:45:00.051 Yeah. 00:45:00.471 --> 00:45:02.781 10 years, nine years, 50 00:45:02.781 --> 00:45:04.581 no one: years, actually a hundred 00:45:04.581 --> 00:45:04.851 Riley Behan-Bush: years. 00:45:04.911 --> 00:45:05.961 A hundred years. 00:45:05.961 --> 00:45:09.801 And so the market is bound to go up, but I also know some medical students 00:45:09.801 --> 00:45:13.491 who were proactive and thought about it going into their first years, 00:45:13.491 --> 00:45:18.471 but do not feel like you have to, that is like not what everyone does. 00:45:18.471 --> 00:45:20.601 And sometimes it's not a great idea. 00:45:20.601 --> 00:45:24.981 Like in the past year it has probably not been the best idea. 00:45:25.251 --> 00:45:25.551 no one: I mean, 00:45:25.601 --> 00:45:29.831 Dave etler: it's kind of dicey to assume that your real estate is going to, it is 00:45:29.831 --> 00:45:31.151 definitely going to increase in value. 00:45:31.151 --> 00:45:34.321 I mean, you could get to your last year of school and the market tanks, and now 00:45:34.331 --> 00:45:41.411 you're like, oh, well, I mean, it may just be a matter of deciding to pay a mortgage 00:45:41.411 --> 00:45:43.211 rather than rent, which one is cheaper. 00:45:43.271 --> 00:45:44.831 You know, that, that kind of thing. 00:45:44.861 --> 00:45:45.371 That's fine. 00:45:45.731 --> 00:45:51.431 we have not bought our houses thinking that they were going to increase in value. 00:45:51.431 --> 00:45:55.826 I mean, I dunno, we're not, we, we ain't no business people. 00:45:57.206 --> 00:45:57.476 no one: Also 00:45:57.476 --> 00:46:00.056 Sahaana Arumugam: some medical schools have like medical fraternities 00:46:00.056 --> 00:46:00.806 that you can live in there. 00:46:00.806 --> 00:46:01.016 Like, 00:46:01.076 --> 00:46:04.796 Dave etler: yeah, like we have the, what is a AKK and siren. 00:46:05.576 --> 00:46:07.706 Sahaana Arumugam: And I think rent's about, it's like less 00:46:07.706 --> 00:46:09.176 than $500 a month, they think. 00:46:09.176 --> 00:46:09.386 Yeah, 00:46:10.876 --> 00:46:11.056 Dave etler: that's 00:46:11.066 --> 00:46:11.366 Nicole Hines: cool. 00:46:11.876 --> 00:46:17.126 I have found death benefits for my living situation though in that we're in a 00:46:17.126 --> 00:46:23.756 really good location between our families and so like holidays and breaks, a lot 00:46:23.756 --> 00:46:25.556 of people disperse and go back home. 00:46:25.616 --> 00:46:27.116 And this is home now. 00:46:27.446 --> 00:46:30.476 I don't, it's kind of a weird mindset when I'm like, oh, where's everybody 00:46:30.476 --> 00:46:32.426 going because I'm not going anywhere. 00:46:32.426 --> 00:46:33.806 But I, I like that. 00:46:33.806 --> 00:46:37.676 I like being in one place and not having to pack up every summer. 00:46:38.666 --> 00:46:41.036 Dave etler: Well, those are the questions I have. 00:46:41.816 --> 00:46:43.706 Now you're, you're the M one in the room. 00:46:43.706 --> 00:46:46.316 Was there a question you had about medical school before you came here? 00:46:49.016 --> 00:46:52.046 Mao Ye: I guess I don't know what to expect for 00:46:54.116 --> 00:46:58.286 . Dave etler: So what is, what is the M two lifelike, just moving 00:46:58.286 --> 00:47:00.596 that one step forward and make 00:47:00.596 --> 00:47:02.276 Nicole Hines: it all the way through the M two life. 00:47:02.276 --> 00:47:03.056 So I 00:47:03.056 --> 00:47:03.266 no one: think 00:47:03.266 --> 00:47:06.236 Dave etler: it's, I think it's, I think it's more of the same, really. 00:47:06.686 --> 00:47:08.996 Sahaana Arumugam: I was going to say the next semester fall is like, 00:47:09.206 --> 00:47:11.126 literally the same, just keep doing what 00:47:11.126 --> 00:47:11.666 Dave etler: you're doing. 00:47:12.446 --> 00:47:16.856 And then in our case, we have an 18, we have an 18 month preclinical curriculum. 00:47:16.856 --> 00:47:20.786 So once you get through the first semester of step two, then you go into your 00:47:20.786 --> 00:47:22.586 preclinical years and then it all changes. 00:47:22.586 --> 00:47:24.776 And you know, you're doing something completely different. 00:47:24.776 --> 00:47:29.156 And oftentimes people are like, this is awesome when they get to clinics. 00:47:30.386 --> 00:47:31.976 Riley Behan-Bush: I'm trying to remember what I was scared about 00:47:31.976 --> 00:47:33.536 going in, you know, stress Riley. 00:47:33.536 --> 00:47:34.306 She had to be stressed. 00:47:35.126 --> 00:47:37.556 There was some that stress Riley was stressed about, but 00:47:38.456 --> 00:47:40.196 no one: for reference and nobody else would 00:47:40.196 --> 00:47:42.416 Riley Behan-Bush: know this, but I've been calling myself stress Riley on 00:47:42.416 --> 00:47:45.806 the podcast for the past few times, because I keep describing myself as 00:47:45.806 --> 00:47:49.796 stressed, even though I'm not like I'm pretty happy go lucky person. 00:47:50.276 --> 00:47:51.746 It's just the word that I use. 00:47:52.496 --> 00:47:52.646 All 00:47:52.646 --> 00:47:52.886 no one: right. 00:47:53.366 --> 00:47:56.516 Dave etler: High-strung we have to visit the 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00:49:19.336 Really appreciate it. 00:49:19.426 --> 00:49:21.226 Always lovely to have you back. 00:49:21.466 --> 00:49:22.156 Thanks panacea. 00:49:24.326 --> 00:49:27.536 today I learned about the hanger ref reflex. 00:49:28.556 --> 00:49:30.146 Have you heard of the hanger reflex? 00:49:30.176 --> 00:49:30.656 No. 00:49:31.466 --> 00:49:35.396 All right, this is, this could blow your mind or it could be complete hogwash. 00:49:37.256 --> 00:49:40.796 it's when the pressure of a clothes hanger worn on the head. 00:49:41.606 --> 00:49:44.996 So as to cause pressure on the Fronto temporal region 00:49:45.296 --> 00:49:47.546 causes an involuntary rotation. 00:49:49.611 --> 00:49:54.891 2015 study of 60 Japanese men and 60 Japanese women found that 95.8% of 00:49:54.891 --> 00:49:59.001 subjects experienced this involuntary movement, mostly rotation toward 00:49:59.031 --> 00:50:00.771 the compressed side of the forehead. 00:50:01.611 --> 00:50:02.631 So here's a wire hanger. 00:50:06.741 --> 00:50:13.811 I mean, we're all going to try this, to see if 95.8% of us experienced 00:50:13.811 --> 00:50:13.971 no one: that 00:50:14.331 --> 00:50:15.861 Riley Behan-Bush: we already know what's happening. 00:50:17.191 --> 00:50:19.701 Dave etler: We contaminate it, right? 00:50:19.701 --> 00:50:20.421 So this is what you do. 00:50:20.421 --> 00:50:22.041 You put it on your head like this. 00:50:22.041 --> 00:50:24.781 So it's like pressing the front. 00:50:24.861 --> 00:50:25.611 It's bigger than my 00:50:25.611 --> 00:50:26.001 no one: wallet. 00:50:26.511 --> 00:50:27.801 Sahaana Arumugam: Will it shrink back inside? 00:50:29.751 --> 00:50:33.801 No, I'm just saying you have a bigger head than me specifically. 00:50:34.461 --> 00:50:35.721 I had a small head anyway. 00:50:35.781 --> 00:50:36.621 What's supposed to happen. 00:50:36.891 --> 00:50:37.341 You're supposed 00:50:37.341 --> 00:50:38.121 no one: to turn your head. 00:50:39.001 --> 00:50:39.441 Dave etler: Does it? 00:50:39.741 --> 00:50:40.731 And it hurts a little bit 00:50:44.451 --> 00:50:45.081 Riley Behan-Bush: that way. 00:50:45.385 --> 00:50:47.035 Nicole Hines: I don't think it's able to put the pressure it's 00:50:47.035 --> 00:50:47.935 no one: supposed to be happy. 00:50:47.935 --> 00:50:48.325 What do you mean? 00:50:48.325 --> 00:50:49.645 That's what I hate. 00:50:50.505 --> 00:50:50.815 Dave etler: Cause my 00:50:50.815 --> 00:50:51.385 no one: head's too big. 00:50:51.385 --> 00:50:52.015 Is that what you're saying? 00:50:52.515 --> 00:50:53.005 Dave? 00:50:53.005 --> 00:50:53.485 Your head is 00:50:53.485 --> 00:50:55.135 Riley Behan-Bush: too big right now. 00:50:55.135 --> 00:50:55.525 Can people 00:50:55.525 --> 00:50:55.975 no one: see you? 00:50:59.305 --> 00:51:03.025 Dave etler: I mean, now that I don't know if the hanger, oh God, 00:51:07.135 --> 00:51:10.045 I know that you try it, Nicole. 00:51:11.395 --> 00:51:11.965 no one: Yes, 00:51:12.955 --> 00:51:15.295 Riley Behan-Bush: no, this happening. 00:51:15.735 --> 00:51:16.585 Dave etler: I should probably look up. 00:51:17.185 --> 00:51:17.665 Sahaana Arumugam: Oh God. 00:51:17.665 --> 00:51:18.475 What were the methods? 00:51:19.945 --> 00:51:20.305 Okay. 00:51:20.545 --> 00:51:21.205 Is it hurt? 00:51:21.725 --> 00:51:21.985 You 00:51:21.985 --> 00:51:22.405 no one: have to 00:51:27.235 --> 00:51:30.565 Dave etler: the pressure is going to be like on your, on your 00:51:31.255 --> 00:51:32.385 no one: frontotemporal. 00:51:36.175 --> 00:51:38.035 Dave etler: Do you feel an urge to rotate your head? 00:51:38.905 --> 00:51:43.495 1990 5.8% of 00:51:43.505 --> 00:51:44.185 no one: Japanese. 00:51:47.025 --> 00:51:47.875 Riley Behan-Bush: I feel like the 00:51:47.875 --> 00:51:49.945 Nicole Hines: pressure of it trying to pull it's like actually 00:51:49.945 --> 00:51:52.285 Riley Behan-Bush: trying, like it's physically 00:51:52.375 --> 00:51:53.515 Sahaana Arumugam: moving your head that way. 00:51:53.845 --> 00:51:54.475 Riley Behan-Bush: It was 00:51:54.595 --> 00:51:58.465 Nicole Hines: like, it's that angles like this, but I don't, I did not feel just 00:51:58.465 --> 00:52:03.835 an irresistible desire to turn my head when I really wanted to look at Dave. 00:52:03.905 --> 00:52:04.415 let me try. 00:52:04.788 --> 00:52:05.688 no one: Oh, okay. 00:52:06.468 --> 00:52:09.658 Sahaana Arumugam: I thought of this and I was like, let's put hangers out. 00:52:09.678 --> 00:52:09.828 There's 00:52:09.828 --> 00:52:11.448 Nicole Hines: only Japanese scientists. 00:52:13.098 --> 00:52:13.638 no one: There's this 00:52:14.748 --> 00:52:16.098 Dave etler: relatively short 00:52:16.548 --> 00:52:16.938 Sahaana Arumugam: video. 00:52:16.968 --> 00:52:21.348 Oh, I feel, I feel like, I think I understand because it's like pushing 00:52:21.348 --> 00:52:26.208 on the back like this, so it feels like I should be going like this, but. 00:52:27.228 --> 00:52:27.408 It's 00:52:27.408 --> 00:52:28.668 Riley Behan-Bush: great rotational. 00:52:28.818 --> 00:52:29.598 Yeah, 00:52:29.628 --> 00:52:30.288 Sahaana Arumugam: exactly. 00:52:30.288 --> 00:52:32.898 It's like kind of almost like tugging my head this way. 00:52:32.988 --> 00:52:33.558 Let's look at this 00:52:33.558 --> 00:52:34.038 Dave etler: video. 00:52:34.458 --> 00:52:34.698 Riley Behan-Bush: Okay. 00:52:34.698 --> 00:52:35.238 I'm going to take this off, 00:52:37.428 --> 00:52:38.748 no one: I guess, is what you call it. 00:52:39.018 --> 00:52:43.128 But according to science, for some reason, if you put a hanger on your head, 00:52:46.218 --> 00:52:46.658 your head, 00:52:49.038 --> 00:52:49.598 Nicole Hines: oh 00:52:49.608 --> 00:52:50.058 Riley Behan-Bush: my God. 00:52:50.058 --> 00:52:50.568 It's like 00:52:51.198 --> 00:52:52.698 no one: a hanger and challenging, 00:52:54.108 --> 00:52:54.768 Sahaana Arumugam: but of course 00:52:55.248 --> 00:52:58.068 Riley Behan-Bush: it does feel like it really does feel 00:52:58.068 --> 00:52:59.808 like I want to move that way. 00:53:00.048 --> 00:53:02.988 Like when I move that way, I feel like a relief. 00:53:03.018 --> 00:53:05.058 Versus when I moved that way, it just like is more 00:53:05.058 --> 00:53:07.848 Sahaana Arumugam: pressure because it's just literally like pulling on your 00:53:07.848 --> 00:53:08.088 Riley Behan-Bush: head. 00:53:08.508 --> 00:53:09.888 It's literally just like a muscle thing. 00:53:10.908 --> 00:53:11.688 Dave etler: Well, yes. 00:53:11.928 --> 00:53:13.728 Oh, me muscles do help move. 00:53:14.118 --> 00:53:14.298 Well, 00:53:14.928 --> 00:53:17.058 Riley Behan-Bush: Dave, I didn't need the SAS right now. 00:53:19.728 --> 00:53:21.228 Dave etler: Muscles help move bodies. 00:53:21.348 --> 00:53:21.828 no one: Wow. 00:53:21.888 --> 00:53:22.128 Do 00:53:23.088 --> 00:53:23.598 Dave etler: they, do 00:53:25.578 --> 00:53:26.778 Riley Behan-Bush: I heard muscles don't exist? 00:53:29.238 --> 00:53:29.328 no one: I 00:53:29.328 --> 00:53:32.148 Dave etler: think that's, that's, T-cells don't exist now. 00:53:33.378 --> 00:53:35.358 Mao Ye: I just feel something squeezing in my head, 00:53:36.678 --> 00:53:39.048 Sahaana Arumugam: but it's like, it's squeezing at like two opposing. 00:53:39.528 --> 00:53:41.118 So it almost feels like yeah. 00:53:41.148 --> 00:53:43.038 To relieve the pressure you want to like move 00:53:44.508 --> 00:53:45.828 Dave etler: from the study. 00:53:46.638 --> 00:53:50.628 Shows the it like you guys are wearing it, like basically left to. 00:53:50.628 --> 00:53:50.898 Right. 00:53:50.898 --> 00:53:53.958 But it, the diagram I saw has the hanger rotated. 00:53:53.958 --> 00:53:55.218 It's such that it's pushing on it. 00:53:56.328 --> 00:53:57.018 Riley Behan-Bush: Yeah, you did. 00:53:57.408 --> 00:53:59.298 I do see where it's coming from. 00:53:59.358 --> 00:54:01.848 I don't think it's the way that she turned her head. 00:54:01.848 --> 00:54:07.908 She did also, this is like, assuming we have the neck strength of like a F 00:54:08.208 --> 00:54:10.608 like a baby, like we have next, right? 00:54:10.608 --> 00:54:10.998 Like, we can 00:54:12.288 --> 00:54:13.398 no one: overcome this, 00:54:13.818 --> 00:54:15.048 Riley Behan-Bush: this reflex, this 00:54:15.048 --> 00:54:16.758 Sahaana Arumugam: hanger, I am a famous challenge. 00:54:16.758 --> 00:54:18.888 And then they decided to do a whole study on it. 00:54:18.888 --> 00:54:20.388 Or do you think it was the other way around 00:54:21.828 --> 00:54:24.768 Dave etler: just a bunch of adults, some scientists who are like, Hey, 00:54:24.768 --> 00:54:26.598 let's put a hanger on people's head. 00:54:26.598 --> 00:54:27.258 Cause we're just. 00:54:28.333 --> 00:54:29.773 we just want to fuck with people. 00:54:31.723 --> 00:54:34.123 Nicole Hines: How many of these trends are just like, okay, we're going to 00:54:34.123 --> 00:54:38.053 get three people to act like it does this really traumatically, and then 00:54:38.053 --> 00:54:40.573 we're going to have millions doing it. 00:54:41.263 --> 00:54:41.443 Dave etler: Yeah. 00:54:41.443 --> 00:54:46.993 This does kind of seem a little bit like a tick tock came up with the first, rather 00:54:46.993 --> 00:54:47.323 Riley Behan-Bush: than 00:54:47.863 --> 00:54:49.573 Sahaana Arumugam: I remember we were talking about research 00:54:49.573 --> 00:54:50.953 and scientific, meaningful, 00:54:50.953 --> 00:54:51.673 no one: scientific home. 00:54:55.003 --> 00:54:55.423 imagine 00:54:55.423 --> 00:54:57.343 Dave etler: the med student who came up with us, you 00:54:57.343 --> 00:54:59.323 no one: know, you're on your nerve rotation and you just try 00:54:59.323 --> 00:55:02.143 to shove a hanger on someone's head just to see if they have this 00:55:02.143 --> 00:55:05.543 Dave etler: real you're at home feeling really sad about your life and your 00:55:05.543 --> 00:55:08.953 you're like hanging around with, Hey, up 00:55:09.343 --> 00:55:09.943 no one: for anyone 00:55:09.943 --> 00:55:12.463 Riley Behan-Bush: that tries this, I think a more reasonable response 00:55:12.463 --> 00:55:15.223 would be like, yeah, I kind of feel like I want to move my head 00:55:15.223 --> 00:55:17.323 no one: this way, but like you're, it's partially because 00:55:17.323 --> 00:55:18.943 I'm, it's partially because I'm 00:55:18.943 --> 00:55:20.533 Dave etler: in pain and want it to go away. 00:55:21.013 --> 00:55:21.853 no one: You're not going to get whiplash. 00:55:23.443 --> 00:55:23.803 Dave etler: All right. 00:55:23.833 --> 00:55:30.643 Well, let it be known that the shortcode podcast debunks solidly 00:55:30.643 --> 00:55:32.803 debunks the hanger on the head. 00:55:33.823 --> 00:55:34.513 no one: Yes. 00:55:34.813 --> 00:55:35.983 Dave etler: That'd be on your primary. 00:55:36.853 --> 00:55:39.923 Yes, we were unable to replicate this pretty 00:55:39.943 --> 00:55:40.453 no one: stability 00:55:40.453 --> 00:55:41.023 Sahaana Arumugam: is important. 00:55:41.023 --> 00:55:43.483 Riley Behan-Bush: If anyone wants to write this paper, put musical 00:55:46.403 --> 00:55:47.443 Dave etler: podcast out there, 00:55:47.623 --> 00:55:49.563 no one: it's actually just not podcasts. 00:55:49.573 --> 00:55:50.203 Have a short code. 00:55:52.943 --> 00:55:56.453 Dave etler: speaking of social media, I missed this story on Medscape at the 00:55:56.453 --> 00:55:59.603 end of March, but it's worth talking about, I think a wake forest university 00:55:59.603 --> 00:56:03.353 school of medicine, student was placed on leave after tweeting that she had 00:56:03.383 --> 00:56:07.493 unnecessarily stuck a patient with a needle during a blood draw to make 00:56:07.493 --> 00:56:09.143 a point about transgender rights. 00:56:09.663 --> 00:56:12.273 the student was wearing a pin that indicated her preferred. 00:56:13.338 --> 00:56:14.538 While she was doing a blood draw. 00:56:14.568 --> 00:56:18.578 The patient, as patients sometimes do, made a comment about the 00:56:18.578 --> 00:56:21.668 pin to the effect that it was ridiculous to specify pronouns. 00:56:22.128 --> 00:56:23.478 the tweet now deleted said, 00:56:23.528 --> 00:56:27.908 Quote, I had a patient, I was doing a blood draw on C my pronoun pin, 00:56:27.908 --> 00:56:29.528 and loudly laugh to the staff. 00:56:30.128 --> 00:56:34.238 She, her, well, of course it is what other pronouns even are there. 00:56:35.108 --> 00:56:39.548 I missed his vein, so he had to get stuck twice. 00:56:40.028 --> 00:56:41.228 So that was the tweet. 00:56:42.758 --> 00:56:46.748 The implication here is that the student retaliated by sticking the patient twice. 00:56:46.842 --> 00:56:48.282 Sahaana Arumugam: I, for some reason, I thought they like took 00:56:48.282 --> 00:56:49.752 the pin off and stuck them with 00:56:50.952 --> 00:56:51.582 Riley Behan-Bush: that's what I was 00:56:51.582 --> 00:56:51.792 no one: saying. 00:56:52.282 --> 00:56:56.742 They were like, give us, like, give a vaccine, took the cap off. 00:56:57.252 --> 00:56:57.912 Like just 00:56:58.212 --> 00:56:59.022 Riley Behan-Bush: like took a needle. 00:56:59.052 --> 00:57:00.552 No, I now understand no 00:57:01.122 --> 00:57:02.172 Sahaana Arumugam: that's pronoun pin. 00:57:02.172 --> 00:57:02.802 That's what I thought. 00:57:03.552 --> 00:57:05.442 Nicole Hines: it's a full, it's a full nother level though. 00:57:05.442 --> 00:57:09.702 Like what we're talking about, this person, deciding that they're going 00:57:09.702 --> 00:57:13.182 to make a point and purposely mess and stick twice and then a whole 00:57:13.182 --> 00:57:16.662 other level to think it's a good idea to go on Twitter and talk about it. 00:57:16.782 --> 00:57:17.052 Okay. 00:57:17.052 --> 00:57:17.202 Well, 00:57:17.202 --> 00:57:17.862 Dave etler: here's the thing. 00:57:17.892 --> 00:57:18.462 Couple things. 00:57:18.792 --> 00:57:20.982 It turns out that after investigation, by wake forest, 00:57:20.982 --> 00:57:22.512 that's not actually what happened. 00:57:23.002 --> 00:57:26.332 the first attempt to draw blood was unsuccessful as can happen with people 00:57:26.332 --> 00:57:28.882 who are learning how to draw blood. 00:57:29.182 --> 00:57:31.072 So the supervising clinician took over. 00:57:31.072 --> 00:57:31.912 Hence the second. 00:57:33.287 --> 00:57:33.827 what do you call it? 00:57:34.217 --> 00:57:35.597 The second attempt? 00:57:35.847 --> 00:57:38.847 the intent of the tweet as the student admitted was to highlight 00:57:38.847 --> 00:57:43.227 the bad karma of the patient, who was being a Dick unnecessarily. 00:57:44.377 --> 00:57:47.977 and yet the student was still, I guess, was still, suspended, I 00:57:47.977 --> 00:57:50.257 suppose, while they maybe while they just, while they investigated 00:57:50.257 --> 00:57:53.557 or something like that, because the tweet really does make it seem like 00:57:53.887 --> 00:57:55.657 Riley Behan-Bush: they can't ignore that implication. 00:57:56.227 --> 00:57:56.707 That's kind of 00:57:56.707 --> 00:57:59.077 Sahaana Arumugam: like people miss all the time. 00:57:59.077 --> 00:58:00.667 Like even people, like, 00:58:01.807 --> 00:58:03.067 Riley Behan-Bush: I don't even think I'd know enough to 00:58:03.067 --> 00:58:04.957 like, know, to mess purposely. 00:58:05.137 --> 00:58:08.677 Like I know it's probably the most likely scenario, but I don't, 00:58:08.887 --> 00:58:10.297 I wouldn't be able to do it on 00:58:10.297 --> 00:58:10.927 no one: purpose. 00:58:11.827 --> 00:58:12.217 I don't know. 00:58:12.277 --> 00:58:13.027 Riley Behan-Bush: Maybe I don't. 00:58:13.027 --> 00:58:13.207 Yeah. 00:58:13.207 --> 00:58:13.837 That's so hard. 00:58:13.837 --> 00:58:18.157 I don't think the moral of the story is maybe don't tweet things. 00:58:20.542 --> 00:58:25.142 Better and don't be a Dick, but also understand that people are probably 00:58:25.142 --> 00:58:28.232 not going to be the best that you're gonna come in contact with in medicine. 00:58:28.262 --> 00:58:31.622 And part of the job is to let it roll off your shoulders. 00:58:32.012 --> 00:58:36.422 Dave etler: I, I think it's probably a case of, I wrote this tweet in a hurry. 00:58:36.422 --> 00:58:37.532 I thought it was funny. 00:58:38.252 --> 00:58:42.572 I thought it clearly said one thing and yet it was misconstrued. 00:58:42.752 --> 00:58:43.772 Riley Behan-Bush: It's a great lesson. 00:58:43.772 --> 00:58:47.252 and also some self-awareness to know that not everything needs to be tweeted 00:58:47.432 --> 00:58:52.562 and this is still a professional world and tweeting about things can come back. 00:58:52.862 --> 00:58:55.832 Dave etler: There are a lot of doctors tweeting a lot of things 00:58:56.792 --> 00:59:01.502 and, it makes me want it, cause I knew, you know, years ago, there was 00:59:01.802 --> 00:59:06.122 of course, a lot of reluctance to be on social media, by physicians. 00:59:06.542 --> 00:59:10.442 and nowadays that doesn't seem to be as much the case. 00:59:10.502 --> 00:59:13.672 I mean, I'm sure there are many people who would rather not be on social media. 00:59:13.942 --> 00:59:16.192 and that's, you know, I, sometimes I would rather not be 00:59:16.192 --> 00:59:17.422 unsatisfied actually all the times. 00:59:17.422 --> 00:59:20.272 I would rather not be on social media, but unfortunately that's my life now. 00:59:21.592 --> 00:59:26.302 but the point is like, you don't have to, you don't have to tweet 00:59:26.392 --> 00:59:28.702 that thing that you think is really. 00:59:30.202 --> 00:59:30.772 You don't have to do 00:59:30.772 --> 00:59:31.042 no one: that. 00:59:31.342 --> 00:59:32.932 Riley Behan-Bush: You probably could've had a lesson from it. 00:59:32.962 --> 00:59:38.302 Like my patient made fun of the pronouns and that is unfortunate. 00:59:38.332 --> 00:59:41.332 And sometimes something we have to deal with in the world and maybe leave 00:59:41.332 --> 00:59:44.542 out the second part or because I think it's fair to bring attention to it. 00:59:44.542 --> 00:59:47.182 That there's a lot of people that are like, rightly so putting 00:59:47.182 --> 00:59:48.292 pronouns now on their badges. 00:59:48.292 --> 00:59:51.292 Like I think that's awesome, but they also have to be aware that some people 00:59:51.292 --> 00:59:52.342 are going to make comments about it. 00:59:52.342 --> 00:59:55.342 So I think that tweet alone is bringing awareness to people who 00:59:55.342 --> 00:59:58.702 are probably going to have similar situations leave out the second part. 00:59:59.332 --> 01:00:02.092 I think it would have been much more impactful if you had that first part 01:00:02.092 --> 01:00:05.302 and then a story about a patient who 01:00:05.392 --> 01:00:07.852 Nicole Hines: like, was positively impacted by seeing 01:00:07.852 --> 01:00:08.212 no one: them, 01:00:09.902 --> 01:00:13.052 Dave etler: or you could, as you I've already observed, 01:00:13.712 --> 01:00:14.882 just say to that patient. 01:00:14.882 --> 01:00:19.322 Well, I'm not really interested in talking about that at all. 01:00:21.182 --> 01:00:21.542 I don't know. 01:00:21.932 --> 01:00:24.692 Riley Behan-Bush: I feel like I would be like, well, they're important to me 01:00:24.722 --> 01:00:26.462 and important to a lot of other people. 01:00:27.712 --> 01:00:29.242 Dave etler: Well look, that's our show. 01:00:29.352 --> 01:00:31.002 Mao Riley, Nicole sauna. 01:00:31.032 --> 01:00:32.712 Thank you for being on the show with me today. 01:00:33.342 --> 01:00:33.822 Thank you. 01:00:34.062 --> 01:00:35.592 And what kind of dong would I be if I didn't? 01:00:35.592 --> 01:00:35.862 Thank you. 01:00:35.862 --> 01:00:37.752 Short coats for making us a part of your week. 01:00:37.782 --> 01:00:40.542 If you're new here and you like what you heard today, follow our show. 01:00:40.542 --> 01:00:42.162 Wherever fine podcasts are available. 01:00:42.192 --> 01:00:42.762 We've got there. 01:00:42.762 --> 01:00:45.882 It's in a number of places, Spotify, apple podcasts, Google podcasts, YouTube. 01:00:46.422 --> 01:00:50.472 Our editors are and then that's it. 01:00:52.422 --> 01:00:54.972 The show is made possible by gender station, by Carver college of medicine, 01:00:54.972 --> 01:00:57.372 student government, and ongoing support for the writing and humanities program. 01:00:57.372 --> 01:00:58.182 Our music is by Dr. 01:00:58.182 --> 01:00:58.962 Vox and captain sphere. 01:00:58.962 --> 01:01:01.902 I'm Dave, Etler saying don't let the bastards get you down. 01:01:02.352 --> 01:01:03.402 Talk to you in one week.