WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:32.538 --> 00:00:33.008 Riley Behan-Bush: I 00:00:33.018 --> 00:00:36.438 Jessica De Haan: do remember once having this, like, um, he was a retired. 00:00:37.278 --> 00:00:42.438 Surgeon who was just angry at everyone , and there was a complication with a 00:00:42.438 --> 00:00:46.128 feeding tube in his stomach and And I have nobody wanted to touch them though. 00:00:46.368 --> 00:00:49.808 And I just remembered, I just went in there and turned on my charm and I. 00:00:50.798 --> 00:00:52.118 I can't tell you what I said. 00:00:52.118 --> 00:00:54.728 by the time he left the clinic, he was smiling. 00:00:54.758 --> 00:00:54.848 Yeah. 00:00:54.908 --> 00:00:55.748 Oh, you are just cute. 00:00:55.748 --> 00:00:56.078 A little 00:00:56.978 --> 00:00:57.968 Listener Josh: honey, so biscuit 00:00:58.627 --> 00:01:00.877 Dave Etler: Welcome back to the short coat podcast. 00:01:00.907 --> 00:01:03.417 The show that gives you an honest look at medical school. 00:01:05.012 --> 00:01:09.482 Of the university of Iowa Carver college of medicine. 00:01:10.232 --> 00:01:11.042 I remember that. 00:01:11.162 --> 00:01:16.832 I can't tell you how many people who I have met, who have listened to the show 00:01:16.892 --> 00:01:20.132 and then they've come and interviewed here and been like, oh, I had no idea. 00:01:20.132 --> 00:01:20.972 The show has done here. 00:01:22.922 --> 00:01:25.802 Riley Behan-Bush: First line of the first. 00:01:25.802 --> 00:01:27.962 Aline Sandouk: And the last line actually, is this 00:01:27.962 --> 00:01:28.502 Dave Etler: happens more 00:01:28.502 --> 00:01:29.432 Jessica De Haan: often than you might think. 00:01:29.942 --> 00:01:31.292 How many commercials do you watch? 00:01:31.302 --> 00:01:32.192 You're like, that was funny. 00:01:32.192 --> 00:01:32.792 And then you're like, what 00:01:32.792 --> 00:01:32.972 Riley Behan-Bush: was the. 00:01:33.622 --> 00:01:33.892 Dave Etler: Yeah. 00:01:33.982 --> 00:01:34.942 Well, okay. 00:01:36.082 --> 00:01:38.152 Riley Behan-Bush: That's you gotta say it louder. 00:01:40.312 --> 00:01:45.832 Dave Etler: Uh I'm the king of Dave Etler would that doesn't matter right 00:01:45.832 --> 00:01:48.742 now because I've got some real live medical students here in the studio. 00:01:49.012 --> 00:01:51.352 Do you all want to introduce yourselves using a cool moniker? 00:01:51.352 --> 00:01:53.122 Like I did like, like choose your own. 00:01:53.972 --> 00:01:54.812 Moniker on the 00:01:54.812 --> 00:01:55.472 Riley Behan-Bush: fly. 00:01:55.652 --> 00:01:57.562 I needed three days advanced. 00:01:58.172 --> 00:01:59.522 I wouldn't be able to do this out. 00:01:59.522 --> 00:02:00.092 Let's do it. 00:02:00.152 --> 00:02:00.932 How about the standard 00:02:00.932 --> 00:02:01.472 Hannah Van Ert: comedian? 00:02:02.162 --> 00:02:02.612 I was 00:02:02.792 --> 00:02:07.502 Aline Sandouk: gonna say, um, all scrubs this is all I'm wearing from now on. 00:02:08.462 --> 00:02:09.542 They're amazing. 00:02:09.542 --> 00:02:11.192 I don't know why we wear anything else. 00:02:11.582 --> 00:02:12.392 Dave Etler: MD/PhD. 00:02:14.177 --> 00:02:14.927 All scrubs. 00:02:15.077 --> 00:02:15.767 I like that, 00:02:16.487 --> 00:02:19.457 Jessica De Haan: uh, Prego Jess, because I feel like I've been 00:02:19.457 --> 00:02:20.657 pregnant for half of medical school 00:02:24.047 --> 00:02:26.417 fitting moniker, and I'm going into OB GYN. 00:02:26.417 --> 00:02:26.567 So 00:02:26.897 --> 00:02:28.547 Dave Etler: Jessica Hahn, M three. 00:02:28.757 --> 00:02:28.967 Yeah. 00:02:29.157 --> 00:02:29.407 Jessica De Haan: Right. 00:02:30.617 --> 00:02:33.077 Riley Behan-Bush: You're basically I'm for senior student. 00:02:33.677 --> 00:02:34.127 So that should 00:02:34.127 --> 00:02:34.327 Dave Etler: be. 00:02:35.132 --> 00:02:35.612 Riley being 00:02:35.612 --> 00:02:38.282 Riley Behan-Bush: Bush constant stress Riley 00:02:42.392 --> 00:02:43.712 Hannah Van Ert: started off with consonant. 00:02:44.402 --> 00:02:45.512 Riley Behan-Bush: She's stressed. 00:02:45.812 --> 00:02:48.752 I was going to say constantly stress, but that I took a back 00:02:48.752 --> 00:02:50.672 of staff to stress, stress. 00:02:51.542 --> 00:02:52.502 Hannah Van Ert: You can feel like the stress 00:02:52.502 --> 00:02:57.212 Riley Behan-Bush: response hair, Riley, generally you're 00:02:57.212 --> 00:02:58.622 happy person, but like stress. 00:02:59.122 --> 00:03:02.482 Sometimes my word that I use overall. 00:03:02.512 --> 00:03:02.752 Listener Josh: Fair. 00:03:02.752 --> 00:03:03.382 Dave Etler: Fair enough. 00:03:03.742 --> 00:03:04.132 Fair enough. 00:03:04.882 --> 00:03:05.512 What about you? 00:03:05.512 --> 00:03:06.862 A MD/PhD student. 00:03:06.862 --> 00:03:07.372 Hannah Vanner. 00:03:07.432 --> 00:03:08.152 Hannah Van Ert: Oh, Lord. 00:03:09.752 --> 00:03:11.432 I'm first of all, I think I'm today. 00:03:11.672 --> 00:03:13.262 I'm a granny Hanny. 00:03:13.322 --> 00:03:14.612 I've been feeling very old. 00:03:14.612 --> 00:03:17.132 Ladyish I've been knitting a lot. 00:03:17.132 --> 00:03:19.382 I've been sewing a lot and I have two cats. 00:03:19.412 --> 00:03:20.462 So I don't know. 00:03:20.462 --> 00:03:23.252 I'm just embracing the like 75 year old lady life. 00:03:23.282 --> 00:03:23.732 Riley Behan-Bush: Mild 00:03:23.732 --> 00:03:24.962 Dave Etler: urinary incontinence. 00:03:24.992 --> 00:03:25.742 No, 00:03:25.772 --> 00:03:26.042 Riley Behan-Bush: thank 00:03:26.042 --> 00:03:26.432 Hannah Van Ert: God. 00:03:27.747 --> 00:03:28.137 Riley Behan-Bush: Pelvic. 00:03:28.277 --> 00:03:31.137 I still should still have that going for 00:03:31.137 --> 00:03:31.287 Hannah Van Ert: me. 00:03:31.617 --> 00:03:32.187 Excellent. 00:03:33.177 --> 00:03:34.417 Thank you for putting that on the board. 00:03:34.437 --> 00:03:37.437 You have an identity crisis when you're post-menopausal like the rest of us. 00:03:37.467 --> 00:03:38.677 No, no, no. 00:03:38.697 --> 00:03:39.147 It's all. 00:03:39.327 --> 00:03:39.777 It's all good. 00:03:39.807 --> 00:03:43.557 I am fully identify as an old lady and I'm here. 00:03:44.517 --> 00:03:45.077 I'm here for. 00:03:47.005 --> 00:03:48.295 Dave Etler: I forgot to do something. 00:03:48.625 --> 00:03:49.225 Riley Behan-Bush: Oh yeah. 00:03:49.225 --> 00:03:49.825 It's really cool. 00:03:49.825 --> 00:03:50.035 Art. 00:03:50.035 --> 00:03:51.895 The other day you posted something. 00:03:51.895 --> 00:03:53.005 What was your art that you just 00:03:53.095 --> 00:03:53.425 Hannah Van Ert: post? 00:03:53.425 --> 00:03:54.505 Like, what are you talking about? 00:03:55.225 --> 00:03:56.815 Talking about how I don't do art. 00:03:56.875 --> 00:03:57.655 Quote unquote, don't do art. 00:03:57.895 --> 00:03:59.305 So I crossed it. 00:03:59.335 --> 00:04:00.775 So it's like a form of embroidery 00:04:01.435 --> 00:04:02.995 Riley Behan-Bush: and it wasn't, it was stunning 00:04:03.355 --> 00:04:04.255 Hannah Van Ert: for the art context. 00:04:05.935 --> 00:04:08.155 Trying to con my mom and a framing it for me. 00:04:08.755 --> 00:04:10.015 So, and I bet I bet your shoe. 00:04:10.015 --> 00:04:13.045 Well, I just have to ask for it for a gift, but it's this 00:04:13.045 --> 00:04:14.305 like, oh, I don't even know. 00:04:14.305 --> 00:04:17.305 I think it's probably like two feet by a foot and it's 00:04:17.305 --> 00:04:19.045 this beautiful, like art deco. 00:04:19.750 --> 00:04:21.130 Lady, it looked like 00:04:21.220 --> 00:04:21.850 Riley Behan-Bush: Musha 00:04:23.500 --> 00:04:23.770 Hannah Van Ert: right. 00:04:24.070 --> 00:04:25.420 Oh, that's a great quote. 00:04:25.460 --> 00:04:26.380 I got off Pinterest. 00:04:26.380 --> 00:04:30.650 I got the power of Pinterest, there's like a, a paired thing that goes with it. 00:04:30.650 --> 00:04:32.330 And the other ladies, like looking towards each other. 00:04:32.330 --> 00:04:32.760 So I bet. 00:04:34.130 --> 00:04:37.700 Her and then frame both of them and like gold frames and then 00:04:37.700 --> 00:04:38.780 hang them somewhere in my house. 00:04:38.780 --> 00:04:39.440 That would be incredible. 00:04:39.440 --> 00:04:41.630 And just never stopped talking about the fact like anytime 00:04:41.630 --> 00:04:42.470 anyone comes through my house, 00:04:42.470 --> 00:04:43.730 Riley Behan-Bush: be like I made that. 00:04:43.730 --> 00:04:44.990 I that's my thing. 00:04:44.990 --> 00:04:48.290 That is the only reason that I want to get into DIY things is for the. 00:04:48.830 --> 00:04:52.850 Absolutely on humblebrag being like, yeah, I made that bed. 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:53.330 Yeah. 00:04:53.330 --> 00:04:57.590 That shelf hung that I feel such pride being the one in my household 00:04:57.590 --> 00:05:02.270 that does the like carpentry and by carpentry, I mean like nail 00:05:02.270 --> 00:05:05.930 and wall and problem solving. 00:05:05.960 --> 00:05:09.980 I mean, I, you know, get one engineering degree and you can 00:05:09.980 --> 00:05:11.570 feel like you can do anything. 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:12.830 I cannot do anything. 00:05:12.830 --> 00:05:14.180 I got a Hacksaw the other day. 00:05:14.570 --> 00:05:16.790 I know enough to know about safety, but not. 00:05:17.645 --> 00:05:20.705 Like to know about, to know, to go get the things that will keep me safe. 00:05:20.705 --> 00:05:25.265 So I just had a hand on it, sag away on the side of a car, like a coffee table. 00:05:25.265 --> 00:05:26.045 It was chaos. 00:05:26.075 --> 00:05:30.265 I mean, absolute chaos, but I knew enough to know hand needs to stay away. 00:05:30.505 --> 00:05:33.125 Victim once a victim of, no, 00:05:33.125 --> 00:05:34.085 Hannah Van Ert: this is not a Hacksaw. 00:05:34.115 --> 00:05:35.225 This is a cryostat. 00:05:35.225 --> 00:05:39.875 So I was slicing placental tissue, the cryostat and I did the VR. 00:05:39.905 --> 00:05:43.225 I did a very dumb thing and it, I really bad. 00:05:43.760 --> 00:05:50.090 And then I refuse to tell anyone about it because it is a it's it's cold. 00:05:50.210 --> 00:05:51.440 It's a deli slicer. 00:05:51.590 --> 00:05:52.010 Yes. 00:05:52.050 --> 00:05:54.140 But it's not set up like a deli. 00:05:54.230 --> 00:05:58.310 It's basically a very, very sharp blade that can, and it's a, it's a 00:05:58.430 --> 00:05:59.750 piece of machinery and you can dig. 00:05:59.780 --> 00:06:00.350 You can tell that. 00:06:00.830 --> 00:06:03.170 Thick, you want it to slice this piece of tissue. 00:06:03.440 --> 00:06:06.740 So it's capable of forming these very, very, very thin slices of tissue that's 00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:09.140 embedded in this like plastic-y material. 00:06:09.470 --> 00:06:12.920 And I was trying to get the gunk off the blade with the 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:13.850 Riley Behan-Bush: paper towels term. 00:06:14.270 --> 00:06:15.830 Dave Etler: Yes, the science 00:06:16.310 --> 00:06:16.810 Riley Behan-Bush: and the science, 00:06:17.180 --> 00:06:18.020 Hannah Van Ert: the science guy. 00:06:18.290 --> 00:06:21.710 And I sliced my finger open and I felt so embarrassed. 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:25.640 And it was in the lab of a person who has an MD degree, like an MD. 00:06:25.940 --> 00:06:30.140 So instead of telling anyone about it, I started cleaning up and like, Get 00:06:30.140 --> 00:06:33.350 out of there before someone noticed that I was like profusely bleeding from 00:06:34.400 --> 00:06:37.490 Riley Behan-Bush: you, put the bloody Kim wipes way down. 00:06:39.170 --> 00:06:41.180 So it's not very absorbable at all. 00:06:41.660 --> 00:06:43.370 Hannah Van Ert: And he caught me as I was leaving the lab. 00:06:43.400 --> 00:06:43.970 He's like, let's go. 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:45.980 Cause I had it wrapped up really thick in that paper towel. 00:06:45.980 --> 00:06:46.880 And he's like, where are you going? 00:06:46.880 --> 00:06:47.630 And I was like, oh, 00:06:49.370 --> 00:06:52.740 Dave Etler: I just, I just made an unplanned contribution to. 00:06:54.785 --> 00:06:56.435 Riley Behan-Bush: I got to go to the blood center right now. 00:06:57.305 --> 00:06:58.265 Well, and my mind wouldn't 00:06:58.265 --> 00:06:59.285 Hannah Van Ert: stop bleeding into my mind. 00:06:59.285 --> 00:07:01.805 I'm like, I can't extinguish it from a finger cut. 00:07:01.805 --> 00:07:01.895 Right? 00:07:05.225 --> 00:07:05.315 Riley Behan-Bush: It 00:07:05.315 --> 00:07:06.305 Hannah Van Ert: was what you just 00:07:06.305 --> 00:07:07.775 Jessica De Haan: shared though, is like the beginning. 00:07:07.775 --> 00:07:09.305 I feel if so many Marvel movies 00:07:11.205 --> 00:07:14.065 Riley Behan-Bush: have powers right now, you probably aren't aware, oh man. 00:07:14.085 --> 00:07:15.435 Central powers powers. 00:07:16.775 --> 00:07:17.675 But anyway, I am. 00:07:18.035 --> 00:07:18.335 It's 00:07:18.665 --> 00:07:19.085 Hannah Van Ert: you 00:07:19.085 --> 00:07:21.815 Dave Etler: have the, you now have the power potentially. 00:07:21.815 --> 00:07:27.815 You now have the power to transform into, you know, cause follow my logic here. 00:07:27.815 --> 00:07:30.515 You now have the power to transform into whatever you want because. 00:07:31.535 --> 00:07:34.025 Uh, you know, maybe there were some fetal stem cells. 00:07:34.445 --> 00:07:34.655 Jessica De Haan: Yeah. 00:07:34.685 --> 00:07:35.345 She actually, 00:07:35.795 --> 00:07:39.605 Aline Sandouk: we didn't know she had a scar because she spontaneously regenerated 00:07:39.965 --> 00:07:41.975 Hannah Van Ert: your right over like two weeks. 00:07:41.975 --> 00:07:43.055 Yeah, sure. 00:07:43.955 --> 00:07:44.795 Aline Sandouk: You can brag here. 00:07:44.795 --> 00:07:45.515 It's okay. 00:07:45.995 --> 00:07:46.415 Riley Behan-Bush: So sorry. 00:07:46.415 --> 00:07:47.375 That was don't look up. 00:07:47.375 --> 00:07:49.205 The turnover of skin cells don't look it up. 00:07:49.775 --> 00:07:50.435 It was fast. 00:07:50.705 --> 00:07:52.085 I eventually did stop bleeding. 00:07:52.865 --> 00:07:53.285 Hannah Van Ert: Yeah, 00:07:53.315 --> 00:07:57.725 Jessica De Haan: I just realized you all have your MD/PhD MSTP track people. 00:07:57.725 --> 00:07:59.345 So I'm your least educated 00:07:59.345 --> 00:07:59.945 Hannah Van Ert: medical students. 00:08:00.605 --> 00:08:00.725 I 00:08:00.725 --> 00:08:02.825 Riley Behan-Bush: would not say that that's true at all. 00:08:03.215 --> 00:08:08.105 I just called myself stress Riley, get stressed by knowing a lot of things. 00:08:08.730 --> 00:08:08.960 Aline Sandouk: Yes. 00:08:08.970 --> 00:08:10.890 I'm pretty expensive training and momming, 00:08:11.130 --> 00:08:11.610 Hannah Van Ert: obviously. 00:08:11.610 --> 00:08:16.650 So I was in, I was telling Dave or no, Jessica asked me what my PhD was 00:08:16.650 --> 00:08:19.740 in and I'm like, well, technically it's immunology, but you ask me 00:08:19.740 --> 00:08:22.860 anything about T-cells and I can't tell you, I don't think they're real. 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:25.470 You asked me I haven't, I haven't seen it. 00:08:25.470 --> 00:08:25.830 Nothing. 00:08:26.310 --> 00:08:27.240 Those are fighting words. 00:08:28.080 --> 00:08:29.220 Riley Behan-Bush: I don't really, I don't care 00:08:29.580 --> 00:08:30.330 Aline Sandouk: what any of these other 00:08:30.330 --> 00:08:32.280 Riley Behan-Bush: people, it's funny because me not knowing enough, 00:08:32.280 --> 00:08:35.130 I literally thought there was a theory that T cells don't exist. 00:08:36.610 --> 00:08:38.830 The paper was dying, you know, it's 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:40.810 Hannah Van Ert: an ongoing joke and immunology, 00:08:42.010 --> 00:08:44.170 Dave Etler: pre-print a study, not peer 00:08:44.170 --> 00:08:44.440 Aline Sandouk: reviewed. 00:08:45.820 --> 00:08:49.090 There is someone in the department who like, uh, Kevin. 00:08:49.865 --> 00:08:53.795 Who complains a lot about some guys, some random guy. 00:08:53.855 --> 00:08:57.395 I don't know where, who thinks that, uh, macrophages aren't a thing that 00:08:57.635 --> 00:09:00.365 dendritic cells and macrophages are actually the same cell type. 00:09:00.395 --> 00:09:04.865 Just no one's ever caught the intermediary cell before they divide. 00:09:05.375 --> 00:09:05.825 Hannah Van Ert: Oh, damn 00:09:05.825 --> 00:09:07.205 Aline Sandouk: gets real matter. 00:09:07.205 --> 00:09:10.535 But it's like, how dare, like calling it a question, basically 00:09:10.535 --> 00:09:12.485 all of his work, but yeah. 00:09:12.505 --> 00:09:14.285 Scientists are ornery. 00:09:18.275 --> 00:09:19.445 Dave Etler: It was a wonderful discussion. 00:09:19.445 --> 00:09:19.865 Thank you. 00:09:20.945 --> 00:09:21.875 Riley Behan-Bush: You told us to keep talking 00:09:23.135 --> 00:09:23.795 Dave Etler: and you did 00:09:26.105 --> 00:09:27.905 Riley Behan-Bush: again, need to be told we're doing great. 00:09:29.345 --> 00:09:29.795 Dave Etler: All right. 00:09:29.825 --> 00:09:31.625 I finally have what I was looking for. 00:09:31.745 --> 00:09:36.845 Um, Josh called the SEP listener line at 3, 4 7 short CT. 00:09:37.205 --> 00:09:38.735 You're welcome to do that to listeners. 00:09:39.485 --> 00:09:44.615 Uh he's in his clinical years and he has discovered a hack for grumpy patients. 00:09:46.625 --> 00:09:47.435 Let's hear from Josh. 00:09:49.145 --> 00:09:49.835 Listener Josh: I started code. 00:09:50.165 --> 00:09:51.845 My name is Josh Magoo. 00:09:52.085 --> 00:09:56.075 I was wondering if you guys could talk about little Quip that you used to talk to 00:09:56.075 --> 00:10:02.165 patients that just make them laugh or feel good, or just sound like a person instead 00:10:02.165 --> 00:10:05.615 of like rattling off fevers chills started as a breath, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, 00:10:05.645 --> 00:10:07.175 like a robot, like we're training. 00:10:08.795 --> 00:10:09.995 Some things that were previous. 00:10:10.025 --> 00:10:13.055 So my name's Josh, but whenever a patient's like, what's your name? 00:10:13.055 --> 00:10:18.335 And I always say Josh or Joshua, if I'm in trouble Kilz every time, or if you see a 00:10:18.335 --> 00:10:20.885 patient and you're like, oh, how are you? 00:10:20.885 --> 00:10:25.325 And they say, oh, you know about how, or you just say like, oh, well I should 00:10:25.325 --> 00:10:29.405 be asking you that question, you know, or this is probably the best one. 00:10:29.975 --> 00:10:34.775 If you ever have like a curmudgeonly, like 80 year old lady, and they're 00:10:34.775 --> 00:10:36.905 just pissed to be there for whatever. 00:10:37.670 --> 00:10:42.080 If you have any reason to like, hold their hand, like you could 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:45.410 say, you're looking for cap refill or rashes or blah, blah, blah. 00:10:45.650 --> 00:10:48.650 But there's something about holding a patient's hand 00:10:49.070 --> 00:10:50.150 and then they just love you. 00:10:50.420 --> 00:10:54.770 So I've kind of collected a couple of those after rotating with attendings. 00:10:54.770 --> 00:10:56.840 I was wondering if you guys have any good ones as well, 00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:58.970 uh, make this process a clerk. 00:10:58.970 --> 00:11:00.050 That's a little more bearable. 00:11:00.420 --> 00:11:00.560 Have 00:11:00.560 --> 00:11:00.950 Dave Etler: a good one. 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:03.260 Thanks for calling Josh. 00:11:04.190 --> 00:11:09.785 Uh, All of you have some clinical, some clinical experience at this point, but, 00:11:09.785 --> 00:11:14.135 uh, Alena, Jessica, and especially you just because you worked as a physician 00:11:14.135 --> 00:11:19.205 assistant before you, long before you came to medical school, um, do you 00:11:19.205 --> 00:11:24.575 have any standard phrases that you use to put patients at their ease when 00:11:24.575 --> 00:11:26.615 you walk in the door, do you do this? 00:11:26.705 --> 00:11:26.765 I 00:11:26.795 --> 00:11:27.155 Jessica De Haan: can't. 00:11:27.185 --> 00:11:29.525 He's definitely like on-point. 00:11:29.615 --> 00:11:31.135 I can't think if I always have. 00:11:32.210 --> 00:11:34.610 Fixed phrase that I would use. 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:38.750 Um, but I tried to turn on my Southern charm a little bit. 00:11:39.110 --> 00:11:41.300 And that does work, especially with the elderly people. 00:11:41.300 --> 00:11:42.920 Like he said, they do, they love 00:11:48.350 --> 00:11:48.820 Riley Behan-Bush: I 00:11:48.830 --> 00:11:52.250 Jessica De Haan: do remember once having this, like, um, he was a retired. 00:11:53.090 --> 00:11:58.850 Surgeon who was like, he had a, I think a peg this was years ago and nobody 00:11:59.210 --> 00:12:03.290 else wanted to see him because he was just angry at everyone who said, um, 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:07.550 like a tube, a feeding tube in his stomach, and there was a complication 00:12:07.550 --> 00:12:11.970 with it and he didn't want to drive out to where it needed to be fixed and, and 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:13.610 somebody needed to do something for him. 00:12:13.610 --> 00:12:15.530 And I have nobody wanted to touch them though. 00:12:15.770 --> 00:12:19.210 And I just remembered, I just went in there and turned on my charm and I. 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:21.520 I can't tell you what I said. 00:12:21.520 --> 00:12:22.900 It was more like how I said it. 00:12:23.530 --> 00:12:26.710 And then like, by the time he left the clinic, he was smiling. 00:12:26.740 --> 00:12:26.830 Yeah. 00:12:26.890 --> 00:12:27.730 Oh, you are just cute. 00:12:27.730 --> 00:12:28.060 A little 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:29.380 Listener Josh: biscuits. 00:12:29.380 --> 00:12:33.220 So honey, so biscuit and everyone's like, what did 00:12:33.220 --> 00:12:33.460 Jessica De Haan: you 00:12:33.460 --> 00:12:34.300 Riley Behan-Bush: do in there? 00:12:34.300 --> 00:12:34.390 I 00:12:34.390 --> 00:12:37.840 Jessica De Haan: was like, I don't know, just turned on the charm. 00:12:38.250 --> 00:12:40.810 Aline Sandouk: The nerves are charming is, say what you will about 00:12:40.810 --> 00:12:42.220 the south, but they are adorable. 00:12:42.220 --> 00:12:43.450 I tell you every single doctor. 00:12:44.170 --> 00:12:44.980 A lot of, yes. 00:12:45.010 --> 00:12:46.360 Like we're just trying to help ya. 00:12:47.170 --> 00:12:50.680 And a lot of like ins just leaving off the G of like, well, what are you thinking? 00:12:50.860 --> 00:12:52.000 And that's it, all of it. 00:12:52.030 --> 00:12:55.060 And it is immediately very disarming just as a hundred percent. 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.030 Jessica De Haan: And I don't have like a Southern accent, you know, but I have 00:12:58.030 --> 00:13:00.290 family members to do so I can turn it on. 00:13:00.370 --> 00:13:00.700 I need. 00:13:01.810 --> 00:13:05.680 Hannah Van Ert: You can also use like sexism and misogyny to your advantage. 00:13:05.740 --> 00:13:09.820 This is like when I was in the VA as a nursing student, you 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:11.160 like the nurse will walk in. 00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:12.250 Yeah. 00:13:12.490 --> 00:13:13.360 Yeah. 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.210 So you like your, your nurse that you were falling for the day would walk in and 00:13:16.210 --> 00:13:19.300 be like, Hey, I've got a nursing student before you, she needs to practice an Ivy. 00:13:19.300 --> 00:13:20.080 Like, what do you think? 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:21.070 Can she practice on you? 00:13:21.370 --> 00:13:22.780 And the little, like the old. 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:25.270 Navy veterans who are like, oh, I'll love it. 00:13:25.300 --> 00:13:26.110 Any little, pretty thing. 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:28.030 Do whatever she wants to one. 00:13:28.030 --> 00:13:29.650 You gross, but second. 00:13:29.800 --> 00:13:30.220 Thank you. 00:13:30.370 --> 00:13:31.570 Yeah, 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:33.070 Riley Behan-Bush: I guess I'll just take it for the opportunity. 00:13:33.070 --> 00:13:34.360 Hannah Van Ert: Yeah. 00:13:34.420 --> 00:13:36.640 Until they start asking you questions about your personal life. 00:13:36.640 --> 00:13:37.900 And then you're like slowly back. 00:13:38.830 --> 00:13:40.750 The room you are going to do that stuff for real 00:13:40.750 --> 00:13:41.140 Aline Sandouk: fast. 00:13:41.140 --> 00:13:42.100 You're like, oh, well we're done. 00:13:42.100 --> 00:13:43.390 Can't answer that question. 00:13:43.780 --> 00:13:45.760 Hannah Van Ert: This is how much, yeah. 00:13:45.850 --> 00:13:49.210 Dave Etler: You could make up details about your personal life. 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:51.880 I'd just have them ready or make them up on the fly. 00:13:51.880 --> 00:13:52.180 Riley Behan-Bush: Right. 00:13:52.570 --> 00:13:53.650 I'm such a bad liar. 00:13:54.160 --> 00:13:54.370 Hannah Van Ert: Some 00:13:54.370 --> 00:13:58.840 Aline Sandouk: nurses wear wedding bands just to avoid getting sin on. 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:02.170 Cause I mean, before 1990, I think that was the dead giveaway. 00:14:02.170 --> 00:14:05.380 They're like, oh, okay, well that's, can't come out of this one. 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:07.240 So it's effective. 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:07.600 Hannah Van Ert: I think. 00:14:08.525 --> 00:14:08.675 Yeah. 00:14:08.675 --> 00:14:08.705 I 00:14:08.705 --> 00:14:11.435 Riley Behan-Bush: feel like there's a lot of lines that like kind of yield 00:14:11.435 --> 00:14:15.905 from like misogyny or something that it's like, oh, I'm just the cute little girl. 00:14:15.905 --> 00:14:19.715 And it's like, nah, I'm also like, you know, well-educated and I'm here 00:14:19.715 --> 00:14:22.505 to do my job, but like when you're in the VA, it's just kinda like works to 00:14:22.505 --> 00:14:23.675 your advantage to get these patients. 00:14:23.675 --> 00:14:24.755 Like you, it's not great. 00:14:24.755 --> 00:14:25.685 I'm not happy about it. 00:14:25.685 --> 00:14:29.285 And they can't even think of like specific examples, but like, there's 00:14:29.285 --> 00:14:30.745 definitely been times where it's. 00:14:31.520 --> 00:14:34.310 They'll say something sexist and it's just like, ah, and then they're like, 00:14:34.340 --> 00:14:36.050 okay, well, at least they're not backing. 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:39.620 I'd probably should, you know, say other things, but 00:14:40.280 --> 00:14:40.580 Hannah Van Ert: yeah, 00:14:41.270 --> 00:14:43.610 Aline Sandouk: it's not a, mean-spirited, it's a little weird, 00:14:43.610 --> 00:14:48.170 but like, you have to remember that the guys, the VAR relics from a 00:14:48.170 --> 00:14:50.000 Riley Behan-Bush: different site, you're talking to your eight year old grandpa. 00:14:50.030 --> 00:14:51.920 Like, you're not gonna be like, grandpa, don't say that. 00:14:52.310 --> 00:14:52.850 Well, and the, 00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:54.470 Hannah Van Ert: like the ones that I experienced too, they 00:14:54.470 --> 00:14:56.000 were still very respectful. 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:59.120 Like it was very much like, and they are of that generation. 00:14:59.825 --> 00:15:03.305 They tend to ask fewer questions or doubt their medical providers. 00:15:03.305 --> 00:15:04.715 Like they are still of that generation. 00:15:04.715 --> 00:15:06.065 That's like, whatever you say, doc. 00:15:06.275 --> 00:15:06.995 Oh, sure. 00:15:07.085 --> 00:15:09.785 Um, but yeah, they do throw in some of that, like, so 00:15:09.785 --> 00:15:11.365 sometimes you're able to walk in. 00:15:12.800 --> 00:15:13.250 It's a thin 00:15:13.250 --> 00:15:18.050 Aline Sandouk: line and it's really hard to articulate, but there's a 00:15:18.050 --> 00:15:22.250 moment where it crosses over from like folksy to like, okay, you need to stop 00:15:22.580 --> 00:15:23.210 Hannah Van Ert: that's enough. 00:15:23.270 --> 00:15:23.660 You know, 00:15:23.930 --> 00:15:25.040 Riley Behan-Bush: that is, that is true. 00:15:25.070 --> 00:15:28.160 And that's why it's hard to articulate, which is like, it's very situational, 00:15:28.910 --> 00:15:30.050 these kinds of interactions. 00:15:30.050 --> 00:15:32.210 And I guess we are talking about maybe the population. 00:15:32.900 --> 00:15:34.220 Would walk on that fine line. 00:15:34.220 --> 00:15:36.980 There's also like a whole host of like, when you're in a pediatric 00:15:36.980 --> 00:15:39.860 clinic, like ask any kid about the toy they're playing with and they're 00:15:39.860 --> 00:15:43.700 going to instantly love you, like ask any kid about any show that you've 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:45.380 heard that kids are into these days. 00:15:45.680 --> 00:15:46.340 Cause your melon, 00:15:46.610 --> 00:15:47.690 Hannah Van Ert: like your favorite pop patrol. 00:15:47.750 --> 00:15:48.320 Exactly. 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:48.830 And so I think 00:15:48.980 --> 00:15:52.400 Riley Behan-Bush: those things like just learning about the kind of 00:15:52.430 --> 00:15:54.860 people you're working with and then like start asking them about the 00:15:54.860 --> 00:15:58.420 thing that it works more so with children, but teenagers ask them about. 00:15:59.075 --> 00:16:02.045 They always, they would roll their eyes at me, but I'd be like, yeah, I'm on tic-tac. 00:16:02.285 --> 00:16:02.975 I felt really cool. 00:16:18.136 --> 00:16:21.856 So what would I really like Josh's idea of having a stock phrase. 00:16:23.866 --> 00:16:26.986 Jessica De Haan: Um, I have stock phrases that, but they're not like funny. 00:16:26.986 --> 00:16:29.476 I mean, it's like I walk in the room and, you know, as the med student 00:16:29.476 --> 00:16:32.536 being like, you know, I'm here just to make sure we're on the same page. 00:16:33.196 --> 00:16:34.096 Uh, you know, Dr. 00:16:34.096 --> 00:16:36.946 So-and-so is going to come in and follow up, but I'm just here to get 00:16:36.946 --> 00:16:38.416 things started with you if that's okay. 00:16:38.686 --> 00:16:41.476 So they don't feel like I'm totally wasting their time, but that's 00:16:41.476 --> 00:16:43.096 not like a humorous stock phrase. 00:16:43.096 --> 00:16:47.626 That's just like a awkward initiation stock phrase, um, 00:16:47.656 --> 00:16:48.856 to where they put up with me. 00:16:48.946 --> 00:16:52.756 Um, so I like the idea of maybe starting off with something more humorous, but 00:16:52.756 --> 00:16:57.266 I can't think of something for you hit really good on like, Adolescents. 00:16:57.266 --> 00:16:59.246 I'm like, we talked about elderly people. 00:16:59.546 --> 00:17:03.596 So what if they're like 25 to 60, you know, what do we 00:17:03.596 --> 00:17:04.366 Riley Behan-Bush: do with that rate? 00:17:04.796 --> 00:17:06.566 I feel like the, I don't know. 00:17:06.656 --> 00:17:09.926 It's hard because it's not often the like intro phrase, but I think 00:17:10.226 --> 00:17:12.056 asking any person who has explored. 00:17:12.596 --> 00:17:15.896 Interest in talking about their children, about their children like that. 00:17:15.896 --> 00:17:18.836 I mean, I probably have gotten myself into like five to 10 minute 00:17:18.836 --> 00:17:21.926 conversations with patients that I had seen about their children. 00:17:21.926 --> 00:17:24.716 And like they're telling me every ounce of their lives and I'm like, 00:17:24.836 --> 00:17:27.056 all right, well, really happy we're having this conversation. 00:17:27.056 --> 00:17:28.196 This is not where I thought it would go. 00:17:28.196 --> 00:17:29.696 But like, it is really interesting. 00:17:29.696 --> 00:17:31.736 And sometimes you learn a lot about those people and they're 00:17:31.736 --> 00:17:33.356 more likely to open up to you. 00:17:33.356 --> 00:17:36.476 And sometimes I'll come back in and check on them later and they'd 00:17:36.476 --> 00:17:40.106 like, have photos ready to show me of their dog or their child. 00:17:40.926 --> 00:17:43.896 I like going deeper into those personal questions, even though it's not 00:17:43.896 --> 00:17:46.416 necessarily your job and you don't always have the time, but I want to 00:17:46.416 --> 00:17:48.336 phrase, I don't know about the intro. 00:17:49.056 --> 00:17:52.896 Aline Sandouk: Gary Goldman has this amazing bit about being at the grocery 00:17:52.896 --> 00:17:55.536 store and having someone like cut in line. 00:17:55.536 --> 00:17:58.776 I don't know what, but he was like, if you want to get a bunch of old ladies 00:17:58.776 --> 00:18:00.396 on your side, just call them girls. 00:18:00.396 --> 00:18:01.686 He's like, come on girls. 00:18:03.396 --> 00:18:04.146 Well army. 00:18:04.596 --> 00:18:05.406 That's true. 00:18:05.476 --> 00:18:09.576 When I walk into a room and I call someone like young man or young lady, like that 00:18:09.576 --> 00:18:13.776 immediately makes them feel, but they're like, no, one's said that in here. 00:18:15.216 --> 00:18:15.576 That's 00:18:15.576 --> 00:18:16.416 Jessica De Haan: pretty sweet. 00:18:16.416 --> 00:18:16.866 So 00:18:17.466 --> 00:18:20.466 Dave Etler: I, but I, I think that the equip that relies on 00:18:20.466 --> 00:18:21.636 the characteristic of the person. 00:18:22.581 --> 00:18:26.031 In the interim, the other person in the interaction is a bit risky. 00:18:26.421 --> 00:18:26.721 Aline Sandouk: Yeah. 00:18:26.751 --> 00:18:30.291 It's very, you know, the problem is that there's not a one size fits all. 00:18:30.321 --> 00:18:33.231 And I think that's what we're all getting at is like, you have to like a good 00:18:33.231 --> 00:18:35.211 comedian, you have to read the room. 00:18:35.211 --> 00:18:37.401 Some people are not in the mood to joke around. 00:18:37.401 --> 00:18:40.031 And so you'll make a joke and it falls flat and you're like, all right, right. 00:18:40.041 --> 00:18:40.611 So business. 00:18:40.701 --> 00:18:45.176 Um, but then some people, I don't know, I try to let the patient determine that 00:18:45.176 --> 00:18:48.266 like, if they start joking around, I'm like, all right, this is going to be fun. 00:18:48.266 --> 00:18:50.876 So then we, you know, but it just depends. 00:18:51.116 --> 00:18:51.686 I don't really 00:18:51.686 --> 00:18:53.696 Dave Etler: think you should tell the story that you shared with me. 00:18:53.756 --> 00:18:54.566 I don't know if I should. 00:18:54.776 --> 00:18:58.466 I really think you should really think you should. 00:18:58.526 --> 00:18:59.576 It's a good story. 00:19:01.766 --> 00:19:04.226 I'll tell you what, share this story. 00:19:06.686 --> 00:19:07.256 Yeah, right. 00:19:07.766 --> 00:19:10.706 Riley Behan-Bush: I will personally, I will delete it and 00:19:10.706 --> 00:19:11.966 Dave Etler: then I will delete it. 00:19:11.966 --> 00:19:16.646 If you, upon reflection, you have to give it the weekend upon reflection. 00:19:17.606 --> 00:19:19.376 Decide that again. 00:19:20.426 --> 00:19:20.726 Okay. 00:19:22.116 --> 00:19:26.226 Aline Sandouk: Um, so you guys remember in the first year when, uh, for the 00:19:26.226 --> 00:19:30.216 SPS, they would have a day or whatever, where they would bring SPS with like 00:19:30.216 --> 00:19:33.546 specific physical exam findings, and you'd kind of rotate between the rooms. 00:19:34.146 --> 00:19:38.076 Um, it's made me sweat, just thinking about it's so embarrassing 00:19:38.076 --> 00:19:41.676 to look back, but you know what audience, friends, I grew. 00:19:41.826 --> 00:19:42.996 Let me just preface that. 00:19:43.056 --> 00:19:45.926 I realize what I did wrong and I have grown. 00:19:46.636 --> 00:19:47.176 Beyond that. 00:19:47.176 --> 00:19:51.616 But anyway, um, one of the patients there had RA like pretty bad rheumatoid 00:19:51.616 --> 00:19:56.566 arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, so had like the Swan neck finger and like the 00:19:56.686 --> 00:19:59.476 think Bouchard's nodes and things like 00:19:59.476 --> 00:19:59.806 Dave Etler: that. 00:20:01.006 --> 00:20:01.326 I'm 00:20:01.336 --> 00:20:02.056 Jessica De Haan: translating. 00:20:02.176 --> 00:20:02.466 Yeah. 00:20:02.496 --> 00:20:02.806 Like, 00:20:03.046 --> 00:20:04.186 Aline Sandouk: yeah, exactly. 00:20:04.186 --> 00:20:08.476 Like very, um, I'm trying to use a non-valid word, but like, 00:20:09.621 --> 00:20:13.461 Fingers shaped in such a way that deviates significantly from the 00:20:13.461 --> 00:20:14.991 normal, let's just put it that way. 00:20:15.591 --> 00:20:18.591 Um, and he seemed really good human and I have this habit sometimes of 00:20:18.591 --> 00:20:21.561 when I look back on moments in my life that like, we're totally fine at the 00:20:21.561 --> 00:20:25.161 moment, especially on days when I'm feeling very self-conscious I apply 00:20:25.161 --> 00:20:28.701 this lens of like looking for a bad thing I did, and then beating myself up. 00:20:29.241 --> 00:20:32.601 You know about it for years, but I remember that we were joking around 00:20:32.631 --> 00:20:37.551 and then at one point, all I remember is that we were joking around and 00:20:37.551 --> 00:20:41.361 then I said something like, uh, do you ever use your hands to like, mess with 00:20:41.361 --> 00:20:43.461 people or like play pranks on people? 00:20:44.211 --> 00:20:48.771 And I remember the, he laughed along with that, but then like my brain inserted. 00:20:49.671 --> 00:20:54.111 Before his left, where there was like a flash of discover on his face. 00:20:54.111 --> 00:20:56.391 And I was like, you idiot. 00:20:57.791 --> 00:21:02.511 Why would you, why would you point out that his hands are so disfigured 00:21:02.511 --> 00:21:04.431 that he should bring people with them? 00:21:04.851 --> 00:21:05.031 Jessica De Haan: And 00:21:05.111 --> 00:21:05.371 Listener Josh: I 00:21:07.431 --> 00:21:08.541 Dave Etler: we've all been there. 00:21:10.521 --> 00:21:13.041 Riley Behan-Bush: experiences of my life that I've done, stuff like that. 00:21:13.961 --> 00:21:14.481 Have a moment. 00:21:15.326 --> 00:21:16.406 I want to take the words 00:21:16.406 --> 00:21:16.826 Hannah Van Ert: back. 00:21:16.826 --> 00:21:18.896 This was funny to me and my brain, but shouldn't, 00:21:20.126 --> 00:21:22.676 Dave Etler: or even just like I have these moments like 00:21:22.706 --> 00:21:24.296 distributed throughout my life. 00:21:24.926 --> 00:21:28.076 It's I sort of think of it as just a layer of. 00:21:29.106 --> 00:21:30.036 Stupidity. 00:21:30.726 --> 00:21:34.326 That's been sprinkled to an even eighth inch thick across my entire 00:21:34.326 --> 00:21:39.126 existence where I've said something that was just or done something 00:21:39.126 --> 00:21:41.886 that was just cringe worthy. 00:21:42.516 --> 00:21:45.216 And years later, I'll be sitting there like watching. 00:21:45.861 --> 00:21:47.931 Television or whatever, and it'll occur to me and I'll be like, 00:21:48.501 --> 00:21:50.261 Riley Behan-Bush: yeah. 00:21:50.421 --> 00:21:52.821 Jessica De Haan: Or it hits you really like laughing at some character. 00:21:52.821 --> 00:21:54.471 Who's just so oblivious to themselves. 00:21:54.471 --> 00:21:55.941 And you're like, that was me. 00:21:57.291 --> 00:21:59.451 Dave Etler: I mean, it's fine. 00:21:59.871 --> 00:22:02.271 Aline Sandouk: I'm sure he was like this bitch and then moved on 00:22:04.071 --> 00:22:04.701 Hannah Van Ert: positive. 00:22:04.761 --> 00:22:07.071 Aline Sandouk: I, it woke me up from sleep in the middle of the night 00:22:07.071 --> 00:22:08.751 where I was like, oh, put it on. 00:22:09.516 --> 00:22:10.866 Throw it on the pile, right? 00:22:10.896 --> 00:22:13.806 Let's start the whole movie of all the dumb shit I've ever said, but 00:22:13.806 --> 00:22:15.516 he probably moved on immediately. 00:22:15.666 --> 00:22:15.816 I'm 00:22:15.816 --> 00:22:16.206 Hannah Van Ert: sure. 00:22:16.296 --> 00:22:17.646 Well, she signed up for this job. 00:22:17.676 --> 00:22:19.296 I'm sure he did move on immediately. 00:22:19.296 --> 00:22:19.866 Especially if, 00:22:20.406 --> 00:22:21.096 Listener Josh: if it was me, 00:22:21.786 --> 00:22:24.666 Dave Etler: I know if it was me, I would be like, first of all, 00:22:24.666 --> 00:22:27.246 I probably would have been using my Michelle and hands to do. 00:22:35.291 --> 00:22:35.731 Listener Josh: on my finger. 00:22:37.411 --> 00:22:37.621 Jessica De Haan: That's 00:22:37.621 --> 00:22:42.721 Aline Sandouk: exactly the . You could have a TV show or you just did 00:22:42.721 --> 00:22:43.921 Hannah Van Ert: that all day long. 00:22:43.951 --> 00:22:44.761 We're at Halloween. 00:22:44.761 --> 00:22:48.931 Like he'd be, that'd be the best, like the best one, a house walking around all 00:22:48.931 --> 00:22:49.141 Riley Behan-Bush: by. 00:22:49.231 --> 00:22:52.441 I just think of like, when you're around any child, like accidentally running into 00:22:52.441 --> 00:22:55.141 a pole, as people do where they like try to hit their head and then he's like, oh 00:22:55.141 --> 00:22:58.411 my God, the possibilities are endless. 00:22:59.681 --> 00:22:59.801 My 00:22:59.801 --> 00:23:02.021 Hannah Van Ert: grandpa has these scars in his thigh. 00:23:02.051 --> 00:23:04.721 And when I was six, he told me he got shot in the thigh. 00:23:05.141 --> 00:23:07.631 And so I asked him about it, like 10 years later, I was like, Hey grandpa, 00:23:07.661 --> 00:23:08.891 tell me the story of how you got shot. 00:23:08.891 --> 00:23:10.301 And he looked at me, he was like, what are you talking about? 00:23:10.301 --> 00:23:11.561 I'm like, you got shot. 00:23:12.191 --> 00:23:14.081 And he's like, you believed that. 00:23:15.961 --> 00:23:18.491 I guess he had like osteomyelitis, elderly 00:23:18.491 --> 00:23:19.691 Aline Sandouk: people are shifting. 00:23:20.711 --> 00:23:21.551 Thank you, Hannah. 00:23:21.701 --> 00:23:21.941 Jessica De Haan: They've 00:23:21.941 --> 00:23:22.741 Dave Etler: gotten used to that. 00:23:22.751 --> 00:23:26.831 We, you know, we, elderly people have got used to our deformities 00:23:26.831 --> 00:23:28.991 and our little physical issues. 00:23:29.776 --> 00:23:30.166 Yeah. 00:23:30.256 --> 00:23:33.256 I mean, that's why I say it's risky. 00:23:34.476 --> 00:23:37.026 Aline Sandouk: And so it looks, sometimes it pays off big time. 00:23:37.026 --> 00:23:41.016 People are like, like on the worst day of their lives, they're like, I just laughed. 00:23:41.016 --> 00:23:42.246 Everything's going to be fine stir. 00:23:42.426 --> 00:23:42.816 Right. 00:23:42.846 --> 00:23:43.356 But 00:23:43.386 --> 00:23:46.386 Hannah Van Ert: the people who are in that space to use comedy to cope. 00:23:46.416 --> 00:23:46.836 Yeah. 00:23:47.016 --> 00:23:48.006 Some people want to do. 00:23:48.156 --> 00:23:48.576 Aline Sandouk: Yeah. 00:23:48.636 --> 00:23:49.806 So I've grown. 00:23:50.136 --> 00:23:52.626 I've never said that again to someone, but 00:23:54.786 --> 00:23:58.866 Dave Etler: I wish if you want to see a LeeAnn's face right now, and 00:23:58.866 --> 00:24:02.406 if this survives, if this survives. 00:24:04.201 --> 00:24:07.381 Um, if this survives the weekend for 00:24:07.381 --> 00:24:07.951 Hannah Van Ert: the record that I 00:24:07.951 --> 00:24:10.621 Riley Behan-Bush: think we could do a whole show of anonymous tips of justice. 00:24:11.286 --> 00:24:13.356 Absolutely cringe, worthy things. 00:24:13.356 --> 00:24:16.146 Us as medical students have said to people, things that I've said 00:24:16.146 --> 00:24:17.166 Jessica De Haan: and done that you shouldn't 00:24:17.436 --> 00:24:17.946 Riley Behan-Bush: listeners, 00:24:18.606 --> 00:24:21.976 Dave Etler: that could be a whole thing, support, Alene, support 00:24:21.996 --> 00:24:24.426 Aleen, and all of us who have 00:24:25.116 --> 00:24:28.716 Aline Sandouk: done you be so much cooler about this than I was expecting. 00:24:28.716 --> 00:24:31.116 I thought you were going to be like, really? 00:24:31.566 --> 00:24:32.706 We don't want to, we don't want to be your 00:24:32.706 --> 00:24:34.506 Riley Behan-Bush: friend anymore because it was just 00:24:35.046 --> 00:24:35.196 Jessica De Haan: and 00:24:35.196 --> 00:24:37.806 Dave Etler: support supported lean, and everybody out there who has. 00:24:39.406 --> 00:24:45.796 Sat up in bed in the middle of the night and said to themselves, what the 00:24:45.943 --> 00:24:48.286 fuck is wrong with you to themselves? 00:24:50.116 --> 00:24:50.866 Riley Behan-Bush: Tell us your story. 00:24:51.196 --> 00:24:51.526 Yeah. 00:24:51.526 --> 00:24:55.546 It's like, I have moments to this day that like, I wasn't trying to. 00:24:56.216 --> 00:25:00.806 Uh, trying to figure out comedy and it is forever ingrained in my brain. 00:25:00.926 --> 00:25:04.916 How absolutely like scum of the earth person. 00:25:04.916 --> 00:25:08.606 I was for a single sentence that I just vomited in. 00:25:08.606 --> 00:25:11.066 Then I was like, I want to reel it back right away. 00:25:11.066 --> 00:25:12.356 Cause I can see this hurt someone. 00:25:12.356 --> 00:25:13.436 And I thought it was going to be funny. 00:25:13.436 --> 00:25:13.846 And I now. 00:25:14.721 --> 00:25:15.621 That is not funny. 00:25:15.651 --> 00:25:16.491 Do you still get like the 00:25:16.491 --> 00:25:18.951 Hannah Van Ert: F the flush, like the hot sheets in the hot years? 00:25:18.951 --> 00:25:22.701 I get that, and I can't think of a specific example right now, but I, it's 00:25:22.701 --> 00:25:27.261 a very universal human experience that I think we all wake up in the, I'll 00:25:27.261 --> 00:25:29.001 Dave Etler: be more open about these 00:25:29.001 --> 00:25:29.811 Riley Behan-Bush: experiences. 00:25:29.991 --> 00:25:34.041 I love that the flesh, uh, to go on an embarrassing, speaking of 00:25:34.041 --> 00:25:34.821 Dave Etler: the flesh, 00:25:36.591 --> 00:25:39.501 Riley Behan-Bush: the flesh safely funnier. 00:25:41.911 --> 00:25:42.481 No. 00:25:42.481 --> 00:25:47.251 So speaking of embarrassing SP stories, I was doing a standardized patient 00:25:47.251 --> 00:25:49.231 exam that we have to do to be created. 00:25:49.231 --> 00:25:52.471 And at the end of it, the SPS often give you feedback. 00:25:52.981 --> 00:25:57.961 And in this experience, I often as a person who gets embarrassed, like we 00:25:57.961 --> 00:26:01.981 all do, I get very flushed on my chest and up through my neck, my face is. 00:26:02.731 --> 00:26:07.381 My neck down is not, I often will wear turtlenecks to these events 00:26:07.381 --> 00:26:10.171 to avoid this specific experience. 00:26:10.381 --> 00:26:13.681 One I've had like friends of mine call me out for it. 00:26:13.681 --> 00:26:15.631 Like they're like, yo, you did really well. 00:26:15.631 --> 00:26:17.371 Like you look really red though. 00:26:17.371 --> 00:26:23.796 And I'm like, don't say it, but after this SP experience, Honey, are you okay? 00:26:24.996 --> 00:26:30.066 And like, I don't say it, like, I'm not outwardly nervous. 00:26:30.066 --> 00:26:32.136 Like my tone is usually fine. 00:26:32.136 --> 00:26:36.186 I don't have like a different vibrato, but like I just get red 00:26:36.186 --> 00:26:38.136 and she was like, are you okay? 00:26:38.136 --> 00:26:40.746 Do you need like a glass of water is like, I'm fine. 00:26:40.746 --> 00:26:43.296 Like, I didn't know how to explain to this person who is my patient, but 00:26:43.296 --> 00:26:45.366 it's also not like, I'm really okay. 00:26:46.001 --> 00:26:48.941 Forever been embarrassed now, and I will often wear turtlenecks. 00:26:48.971 --> 00:26:51.041 I'm probably red right now are a little rat in 00:26:51.041 --> 00:26:52.421 Hannah Van Ert: my read right now, your body, 00:26:53.861 --> 00:26:55.091 Riley Behan-Bush: my body does me dirty. 00:26:55.091 --> 00:26:57.791 And some people call me out for it suddenly. 00:26:57.791 --> 00:26:58.571 I'm very sad about it. 00:26:58.571 --> 00:26:59.081 It just happens to 00:26:59.081 --> 00:27:02.801 Dave Etler: everybody, I think, but in the less visible way, like I like some 00:27:02.801 --> 00:27:05.771 tea sometimes even when I'm doing the show, which I do every single week. 00:27:05.771 --> 00:27:07.571 And so I should be used to every once in a while. 00:27:07.571 --> 00:27:09.851 I'm like sweat my ass off for reasons that I. 00:27:10.971 --> 00:27:12.201 Th that are not clear to me. 00:27:13.101 --> 00:27:17.211 Um, but it's just something about being on stage or something like that, 00:27:17.211 --> 00:27:18.831 which is the situation that you're in. 00:27:18.831 --> 00:27:19.611 When you're working 00:27:19.611 --> 00:27:19.701 Jessica De Haan: with 00:27:19.701 --> 00:27:19.901 these, 00:27:20.241 --> 00:27:21.381 Riley Behan-Bush: he betrays you. 00:27:22.641 --> 00:27:25.281 Aline Sandouk: There was a guy in my first year of school that I, that I 00:27:25.281 --> 00:27:28.851 started med school with that I remember in like one of our first few small groups. 00:27:29.691 --> 00:27:32.031 He suddenly developed a stutter. 00:27:32.391 --> 00:27:35.961 And I remember I was just talking to him afterwards and he, thank God. 00:27:36.051 --> 00:27:36.711 I didn't bring it up. 00:27:36.741 --> 00:27:39.261 He brought it up and he was like, I don't know why I'm stuttering all of a sudden 00:27:39.261 --> 00:27:40.851 I'm like, did you have a stutter before? 00:27:40.851 --> 00:27:43.191 And he's like, yeah, but like, I went to speech therapy for it. 00:27:43.671 --> 00:27:45.081 I was like, maybe you're just a little stressed down. 00:27:45.091 --> 00:27:46.331 He was like, but I don't feel stressed. 00:27:46.331 --> 00:27:49.041 And like, your body is telling you you're stressed out. 00:27:49.041 --> 00:27:52.971 Like, like whatever defense mechanism you put up to like train your body to. 00:27:53.586 --> 00:27:56.706 You know, whatever the mechanism of stuttering is, I was like those, 00:27:56.976 --> 00:28:00.786 those defenses break down when you're stressed in a way you don't even have 00:28:00.786 --> 00:28:02.856 Jessica De Haan: any, we had like the blepharospasm. 00:28:03.506 --> 00:28:04.026 I'm fine. 00:28:04.236 --> 00:28:04.716 I'm fine. 00:28:05.346 --> 00:28:05.766 I'm fine. 00:28:05.766 --> 00:28:07.566 My, my eyelids just, I don't know what's 00:28:07.566 --> 00:28:09.036 Riley Behan-Bush: going on through didactic 00:28:10.146 --> 00:28:10.866 Hannah Van Ert: consistently. 00:28:10.866 --> 00:28:11.966 And it was always because I had. 00:28:13.136 --> 00:28:13.946 I was not sleeping. 00:28:13.946 --> 00:28:14.696 That's my trigger. 00:28:14.726 --> 00:28:15.116 Yeah. 00:28:15.116 --> 00:28:15.206 I 00:28:15.206 --> 00:28:19.016 Riley Behan-Bush: get the lot, I got two size in a row on my pediatrics rotation. 00:28:19.316 --> 00:28:21.266 One of which has not gone away. 00:28:21.266 --> 00:28:23.396 It has turned into just scar tissue. 00:28:23.696 --> 00:28:24.356 So 00:28:24.386 --> 00:28:26.576 Hannah Van Ert: yeah, I don't notice it. 00:28:26.636 --> 00:28:26.906 It makes, you 00:28:26.966 --> 00:28:28.376 Riley Behan-Bush: know, it's, it'll look like. 00:28:29.211 --> 00:28:32.181 Inflamed when my eyes get really dry, but usually it's like small enough 00:28:32.181 --> 00:28:34.011 that nobody really notices, but yeah. 00:28:35.031 --> 00:28:37.371 And I had like, I wasn't sure what was going on again. 00:28:37.401 --> 00:28:40.431 Another embarrassing thing to have to text your head resident. 00:28:40.431 --> 00:28:42.951 Like, Hey, I woke up and my eyes swollen shut. 00:28:42.951 --> 00:28:45.231 Like, I don't know what I should do. 00:28:45.241 --> 00:28:47.901 She's like probably a style, but you should go get it checked out and. 00:28:48.846 --> 00:28:49.806 Yeah, it's just 00:28:49.806 --> 00:28:50.436 Jessica De Haan: chaos. 00:28:50.436 --> 00:28:52.026 Start wearing mouth guards at night. 00:28:52.026 --> 00:28:55.596 Cause I noticed I was waking up and my teeth were sore because I was clenching 00:28:55.596 --> 00:28:57.336 and I'm like, why am I clenching? 00:28:57.366 --> 00:29:02.076 Oh, it's just probably like the way I'm manifesting my stress again. 00:29:02.076 --> 00:29:07.356 You think like, I know I don't feel stress, but your body is telling you. 00:29:08.061 --> 00:29:09.441 There's something going on. 00:29:09.771 --> 00:29:10.281 Riley Behan-Bush: Oh yeah. 00:29:10.761 --> 00:29:12.741 The adult acne comes reared. 00:29:12.741 --> 00:29:13.491 Its ugly head. 00:29:13.511 --> 00:29:15.141 It's like you thought you were done. 00:29:15.711 --> 00:29:17.961 Hannah Van Ert: J K well take it back. 00:29:17.961 --> 00:29:18.381 It's the 00:29:18.391 --> 00:29:21.801 Riley Behan-Bush: deep, like deep seated the three weekers. 00:29:23.211 --> 00:29:24.321 Cystic acne. 00:29:24.471 --> 00:29:24.771 Thank 00:29:24.771 --> 00:29:26.781 Hannah Van Ert: God I going back to like that. 00:29:26.781 --> 00:29:27.891 Why do you have to tell me this? 00:29:27.891 --> 00:29:30.681 Like I have shaky hands just at baseline. 00:29:30.711 --> 00:29:31.251 My whole face. 00:29:31.866 --> 00:29:34.026 Shakes like leaf, like we drink our coffee in the morning. 00:29:34.026 --> 00:29:36.936 Riley Behan-Bush: We're all like this only surgeons too, right? 00:29:37.686 --> 00:29:38.856 No war must be 00:29:38.856 --> 00:29:42.516 Hannah Van Ert: a mess and no, but that's the thing, like, we're all like 00:29:42.786 --> 00:29:44.796 a lot of my family is medical ish. 00:29:44.796 --> 00:29:47.826 So like my mom is an x-ray tech, so she used to start a lot of IVs and 00:29:47.826 --> 00:29:50.366 I was an art and like, I can do find 00:29:50.386 --> 00:29:51.726 Dave Etler: moments or slightly blurry. 00:29:53.956 --> 00:29:55.186 Riley Behan-Bush: No, she times it exactly 00:29:55.186 --> 00:29:55.396 Hannah Van Ert: right. 00:29:55.786 --> 00:29:59.836 But, um, where I was going with this as I was doing a suturing clinic recently, 00:29:59.986 --> 00:30:04.186 and I know my handshake and I always tell people, cause I've just learned 00:30:04.186 --> 00:30:06.946 that you just got to tell people because otherwise they think you're nervous. 00:30:07.246 --> 00:30:08.266 And part of it is true. 00:30:08.296 --> 00:30:10.576 Like part of it is I don't want people watching over my shoulder 00:30:11.206 --> 00:30:14.326 and she me, so it's a suturing clinic and she's watching me suture. 00:30:14.326 --> 00:30:15.346 It's an MD here. 00:30:17.076 --> 00:30:20.076 As soon as she was done watching me suture, she stands up and she 00:30:20.076 --> 00:30:24.246 goes, so it's normal for your hands to shake to like the whole class. 00:30:24.246 --> 00:30:25.996 And I'm like, you, wow. 00:30:26.796 --> 00:30:28.206 And she's like, there's ways to get around it. 00:30:28.206 --> 00:30:30.996 You know, like don't have a lot of caffeine or just exercise and eat regular. 00:30:30.996 --> 00:30:31.586 I'm like, do you know. 00:30:32.436 --> 00:30:34.836 Talk to like don't 00:30:34.926 --> 00:30:36.036 Riley Behan-Bush: exercise or eat, 00:30:38.226 --> 00:30:38.466 Hannah Van Ert: right. 00:30:38.466 --> 00:30:41.976 And exercise that will suddenly make your hands drinking 00:30:41.976 --> 00:30:42.696 Riley Behan-Bush: caffeine. 00:30:42.696 --> 00:30:46.806 And I was like, do you realize who you're talking to? 00:30:47.616 --> 00:30:48.846 Dave Etler: But anyway, good advice. 00:30:48.846 --> 00:30:49.866 Let me go get a coffee. 00:30:49.926 --> 00:30:51.476 So I can really, I 00:30:51.516 --> 00:30:53.496 Jessica De Haan: was on or rotation recently. 00:30:53.496 --> 00:30:54.516 I won't say which one. 00:30:54.546 --> 00:30:58.596 Um, and the fellow was going to hand off to a senior resident. 00:30:59.676 --> 00:31:01.476 And basically was like, show me your hands. 00:31:01.986 --> 00:31:05.826 And he put his hands out and they were trembling and she's 00:31:05.826 --> 00:31:07.236 like, Hmm, that's not bad. 00:31:07.266 --> 00:31:07.446 Okay. 00:31:07.446 --> 00:31:07.866 Here you go. 00:31:08.466 --> 00:31:10.626 And I was just like, okay, this is how we roll. 00:31:10.626 --> 00:31:12.756 This is like a common experience then. 00:31:12.756 --> 00:31:13.626 And it made me feel a little 00:31:13.626 --> 00:31:15.276 Riley Behan-Bush: bit better, you know, it does make me feel better. 00:31:15.306 --> 00:31:15.456 Well, 00:31:15.786 --> 00:31:17.796 Hannah Van Ert: I think the thing, like we do a lot, like I do a lot of 00:31:17.796 --> 00:31:21.066 fine motor stuff in lab and there do things like if I know I'm doing a lot. 00:31:21.771 --> 00:31:23.271 Mouse surgeries that day or whatever. 00:31:23.271 --> 00:31:26.571 I won't have like the biggest coffee or I'll wait until after my 00:31:26.571 --> 00:31:28.221 surgeries, but then there's other 00:31:29.091 --> 00:31:31.161 Riley Behan-Bush: thing that I could do well, and I get 00:31:31.401 --> 00:31:34.851 Hannah Van Ert: raging headache because I'm addicted to caffeine, but 00:31:35.181 --> 00:31:36.981 I mean, there's also like adaptations. 00:31:36.981 --> 00:31:40.341 You can do, like, I use a lot of like supporting hand gestures or, you know, you 00:31:40.341 --> 00:31:43.851 like take your time and use your breath and like all these things and to have. 00:31:44.621 --> 00:31:47.441 So eerie, and I'll tell you who it is later, but I don't 00:31:47.441 --> 00:31:48.701 want the world to house. 00:31:49.241 --> 00:31:52.871 We're going to talk some shit, but just trying to teach. 00:31:53.231 --> 00:31:56.861 But she did it in a very, in a way that I felt like it was very kind of catty. 00:31:57.491 --> 00:31:57.881 And I was 00:31:57.881 --> 00:32:00.221 Riley Behan-Bush: like, oh, I like observation would always have 00:32:00.221 --> 00:32:01.511 like coaches that would do this. 00:32:02.216 --> 00:32:06.296 C one player make a bad pass and then it would be like a 00:32:06.516 --> 00:32:10.496 learning experience, learning experience, like a teaching moment. 00:32:10.496 --> 00:32:13.486 Let's make this into a teaching moment when it's very obvious that it's 00:32:13.486 --> 00:32:17.516 like the one person's mistake and now you're calling out the entirety of it. 00:32:17.696 --> 00:32:18.176 And I 00:32:18.176 --> 00:32:18.836 Hannah Van Ert: know about it. 00:32:18.836 --> 00:32:20.396 Like I live with these things, 00:32:20.396 --> 00:32:23.186 Riley Behan-Bush: Speaking of lab stuff, you know, pipetting into like 96, well 00:32:23.186 --> 00:32:24.896 plates, first of all, your eyes crossed. 00:32:24.896 --> 00:32:27.746 And then second of all, it's just like, you know, it takes quite a 00:32:27.746 --> 00:32:30.596 bit of like fine motor skills to like, make sure you're in the right. 00:32:31.046 --> 00:32:35.696 Uh, well, and so I was showing an undergrad, this new technique 00:32:35.696 --> 00:32:36.806 and she had never learned it. 00:32:36.806 --> 00:32:39.146 And I obviously had my morning coffee because. 00:32:39.776 --> 00:32:44.666 Psychopath and I'm showing right now, you know, I'm a little shaky 00:32:44.666 --> 00:32:47.756 one because she's watching me too, because I'm highly caffeinated. 00:32:48.776 --> 00:32:49.796 Cause my grad student. 00:32:50.096 --> 00:32:52.586 Um, and I'm like, yeah, you know, sometimes your 00:32:52.586 --> 00:32:53.786 hands might shake it's okay. 00:32:53.786 --> 00:32:56.036 Like just make sure you're guiding it into the right wall and just 00:32:56.036 --> 00:32:57.356 like, keep, keep track of it. 00:32:57.656 --> 00:32:58.016 I was like, yeah. 00:32:58.046 --> 00:32:58.706 Do you ever have cavities. 00:32:59.371 --> 00:33:02.581 No, and I go good for you think you're better than me. 00:33:02.581 --> 00:33:06.751 And I was like, I probably shouldn't have said that to make her feel bad now for 00:33:06.751 --> 00:33:08.761 not having chasm, then a cringe moment. 00:33:08.761 --> 00:33:09.571 You're like, I'm so sorry. 00:33:09.931 --> 00:33:11.371 I'm so sorry, please. 00:33:11.611 --> 00:33:12.121 It's okay. 00:33:12.121 --> 00:33:12.991 You don't have to drink it. 00:33:13.411 --> 00:33:13.621 I 00:33:13.621 --> 00:33:16.351 Hannah Van Ert: didn't until med school, I got through all of nursing school without 00:33:18.451 --> 00:33:20.371 school started and I was like, holy fuck. 00:33:20.371 --> 00:33:21.541 I'm never going to get through this. 00:33:21.781 --> 00:33:23.521 And now I'm completely addicted. 00:33:23.551 --> 00:33:23.731 Yeah. 00:33:24.671 --> 00:33:26.291 Aline Sandouk: Yeah, I would've, I would've made the same joke. 00:33:26.291 --> 00:33:29.141 Like, well, keep it yourself then you don't need 00:33:29.141 --> 00:33:29.201 Hannah Van Ert: to 00:33:29.201 --> 00:33:32.021 Riley Behan-Bush: brag about, and then I took it back. 00:33:32.021 --> 00:33:34.631 I was like, oh, whatever, it looks good bread that I wasn't good for. 00:33:34.631 --> 00:33:38.111 You genuinely like, like 00:33:38.111 --> 00:33:38.561 Jessica De Haan: diluting. 00:33:38.641 --> 00:33:39.941 I do like half decaf now. 00:33:40.451 --> 00:33:44.501 And so I'm like, okay, like I'm still getting something, but it's not so potent. 00:33:44.501 --> 00:33:47.181 And that if I go without, I don't get the withdrawal headache. 00:33:47.651 --> 00:33:47.801 Riley Behan-Bush: Yeah. 00:33:48.296 --> 00:33:49.196 I think that's a jaw. 00:33:49.226 --> 00:33:52.586 Headache is not so fun or I'll get the overly caffeinated headache. 00:33:52.586 --> 00:33:53.566 It's literally it's 00:33:55.046 --> 00:33:56.066 Hannah Van Ert: you're so caffeinated. 00:33:56.066 --> 00:33:57.086 You're like dehydrating 00:33:58.166 --> 00:33:58.706 Jessica De Haan: therapeutic. 00:33:58.706 --> 00:33:58.796 Yeah. 00:33:58.856 --> 00:34:00.986 But going back to what you were saying, the self-deprecating, I 00:34:00.986 --> 00:34:05.006 think that's kind of where Josh was hitting on with his comment about. 00:34:05.581 --> 00:34:06.811 She and I'm in trouble. 00:34:06.871 --> 00:34:07.531 He's like, yeah. 00:34:07.531 --> 00:34:10.351 Yeah, Josh, when I'm in trouble, like he'd make fun of himself. 00:34:10.351 --> 00:34:11.161 And that's the same thing. 00:34:11.161 --> 00:34:13.591 Cause you can't always rely on like, whether your patient's going to like 00:34:13.651 --> 00:34:15.361 take your comment the right way or not. 00:34:15.361 --> 00:34:16.051 If you're joking. 00:34:16.531 --> 00:34:19.711 Uh, I've definitely had instances where I made a joke. 00:34:19.711 --> 00:34:20.491 I'll tell you mine. 00:34:20.641 --> 00:34:21.121 Are you ready? 00:34:21.331 --> 00:34:21.721 Yeah. 00:34:21.751 --> 00:34:22.111 Okay. 00:34:22.501 --> 00:34:27.091 So mine was, I had a gentleman who was a diabetic and he was 00:34:27.091 --> 00:34:28.771 coming in for some kind of. 00:34:29.501 --> 00:34:31.241 Lab test follow up on it. 00:34:31.721 --> 00:34:34.841 And he didn't, um, he didn't eat breakfast that morning. 00:34:34.841 --> 00:34:37.511 Cause I think he really wanted to have good numbers or something, which 00:34:37.511 --> 00:34:40.001 Aline Sandouk: you shouldn't do because he also took his Metformin. 00:34:40.031 --> 00:34:43.001 Jessica De Haan: So I'm in the room with them and this guy has big, I mean, he's. 00:34:43.901 --> 00:34:46.691 At least 300 anymore, um, pounds. 00:34:46.691 --> 00:34:50.171 And so, and he starts going down and I, and I was in clinic clothes. 00:34:50.181 --> 00:34:52.901 I was all like dressed up and my heels on it, even I think. 00:34:53.231 --> 00:34:56.561 And, and I'm like, I guess I'm going all like all in on this. 00:34:56.561 --> 00:34:58.871 And I like grabbed him and he was like, all his weight is on me. 00:34:58.911 --> 00:35:00.041 Cause there was no support. 00:35:00.041 --> 00:35:03.671 He was just in one of those like little rigid chairs there wasn't a bed binary. 00:35:04.001 --> 00:35:05.411 And so I'm like holding. 00:35:06.086 --> 00:35:09.296 And then suddenly he comes out of it a few seconds later, and 00:35:09.296 --> 00:35:10.976 then he leans forward and vomits. 00:35:11.066 --> 00:35:12.776 And I, I dart out of the way. 00:35:12.806 --> 00:35:13.136 Right. 00:35:13.136 --> 00:35:15.866 And then I was able to call the nurse and we were able to, you know, 00:35:16.346 --> 00:35:19.016 put some cool compresses on and get a revive, get him, you know, 00:35:19.016 --> 00:35:20.246 some orange juice feeling better. 00:35:20.606 --> 00:35:23.996 And so then, you know, about two minutes later, he's lucid. 00:35:23.996 --> 00:35:25.646 I have a conversation with them and like, okay. 00:35:25.646 --> 00:35:27.056 So he's like, what happened? 00:35:27.056 --> 00:35:29.006 I'm like, well, I think you got really hypoglycemic. 00:35:29.006 --> 00:35:31.646 You passed out, you threw up and vomited, but the good news. 00:35:32.196 --> 00:35:33.516 You didn't get any on me. 00:35:35.016 --> 00:35:36.906 He did not laugh at that. 00:35:37.746 --> 00:35:40.626 He actually was just like, wow, you just made me feel even worse. 00:35:40.626 --> 00:35:43.446 And I'm like, I'm really sorry. 00:35:43.446 --> 00:35:44.736 That was not my goal. 00:35:44.736 --> 00:35:45.696 I was just trying to make 00:35:45.696 --> 00:35:46.236 Riley Behan-Bush: light of it. 00:35:46.266 --> 00:35:47.736 But with the right patient that would 00:35:47.736 --> 00:35:50.376 Jessica De Haan: have killed, I feel like for me, I would have laughed. 00:35:50.376 --> 00:35:51.546 I think if I, maybe 00:35:53.436 --> 00:35:55.056 Dave Etler: I imagined that he. 00:35:55.676 --> 00:35:57.356 Was probably embarrassed. 00:35:57.656 --> 00:35:58.166 He was 00:35:58.376 --> 00:35:59.846 Riley Behan-Bush: his loss of control. 00:36:00.206 --> 00:36:02.756 Aline Sandouk: No one loves to throw a, be like, oh, I'm so glad that happened. 00:36:03.416 --> 00:36:06.626 But that's a ma you know, I thought, I thought, where you going with it? 00:36:06.626 --> 00:36:09.506 It was like, but luckily you didn't get any on my nice new sheets. 00:36:10.676 --> 00:36:11.516 I would have laughed that. 00:36:11.516 --> 00:36:11.936 I don't know. 00:36:12.266 --> 00:36:12.986 Let me validate you. 00:36:12.986 --> 00:36:14.096 Hannah Van Ert: I thought, I thought that was 00:36:14.096 --> 00:36:14.276 Riley Behan-Bush: funny. 00:36:14.876 --> 00:36:18.716 I wasn't passed out and threw up, but I did think it was funny, 00:36:35.767 --> 00:36:36.887 Dave Etler: you know, self-deprecation. 00:36:37.517 --> 00:36:39.017 Uh, can go a long way. 00:36:39.017 --> 00:36:40.457 It is disarming. 00:36:40.667 --> 00:36:44.957 Um, but I do think if it's used too often and in many circumstances, it 00:36:44.957 --> 00:36:50.627 can sort of cross a threshold into self-criticism that I dunno, it starts 00:36:50.627 --> 00:36:52.277 to affect how other people perceive you. 00:36:52.277 --> 00:36:56.177 So I don't know if that's going to be like, I've noticed, you know, my 00:36:56.177 --> 00:36:58.367 technique is to, you know, when, when I'm. 00:37:00.347 --> 00:37:04.997 This is not a good technique, but this is what I have done in the past. 00:37:04.997 --> 00:37:09.227 And it is to sort of make fun of myself when I screw up. 00:37:10.277 --> 00:37:15.587 And I think what that does is just give people more permission. 00:37:16.637 --> 00:37:18.317 To make fun of you for screwing up. 00:37:20.227 --> 00:37:23.147 I think if you do it consistently enough, it's like the sort of thing. 00:37:23.147 --> 00:37:26.597 Like if you repeat something often enough, it becomes true. 00:37:27.727 --> 00:37:27.987 Jessica De Haan: That's true. 00:37:28.217 --> 00:37:28.577 Riley Behan-Bush: I've seen 00:37:28.577 --> 00:37:31.517 Dave Etler: that, but you know, my first impulse is to just make fun of 00:37:31.517 --> 00:37:34.697 myself because I don't, I don't know. 00:37:34.727 --> 00:37:37.267 It's just better than beating myself up, I guess, 00:37:37.697 --> 00:37:38.187 Riley Behan-Bush: too seriously. 00:37:38.247 --> 00:37:40.877 Dave Etler: I do not take myself seriously. 00:37:42.617 --> 00:37:42.887 Riley Behan-Bush: Yeah. 00:37:43.067 --> 00:37:43.877 Hannah Van Ert: Well, and I love this. 00:37:43.877 --> 00:37:44.897 This is kind of tying it. 00:37:44.927 --> 00:37:49.187 Maybe not so like self-deprecating, but I do try to be very open with 00:37:49.187 --> 00:37:54.167 the like, oh, like with science, you know, it's a classic saying that it's 00:37:54.167 --> 00:37:57.197 like, you're you, you become an expert when you've made all of the possible 00:37:57.197 --> 00:37:58.667 mistakes, at least once or whatever. 00:37:58.907 --> 00:37:59.177 Yeah. 00:37:59.387 --> 00:37:59.987 And so. 00:38:00.917 --> 00:38:04.517 I tried to tell that to younger students as much as possible, or just like, say 00:38:04.517 --> 00:38:06.287 like, oh yeah, I've done that before. 00:38:06.287 --> 00:38:07.037 Like it's okay. 00:38:07.037 --> 00:38:09.947 If you're like trying to be very open with the fact that like 00:38:10.217 --> 00:38:11.087 Dave Etler: vulnerable. 00:38:11.117 --> 00:38:11.537 Yeah. 00:38:13.127 --> 00:38:13.817 Disarming 00:38:14.057 --> 00:38:14.477 Riley Behan-Bush: because 00:38:14.477 --> 00:38:17.717 Hannah Van Ert: in a lot of people like, and I, I don't, I really, I don't 00:38:17.717 --> 00:38:20.147 feel it so much at this university, but every once in a while, I'll 00:38:20.147 --> 00:38:22.817 come across a person who's really on their high horse about something. 00:38:22.817 --> 00:38:27.827 And I'm like, I don't like you because I guarantee that you are not 00:38:27.827 --> 00:38:29.927 this like perfect like angel person. 00:38:30.437 --> 00:38:31.007 And I don't know. 00:38:32.012 --> 00:38:34.682 Tell a lot of younger students that it's okay. 00:38:34.682 --> 00:38:38.372 If you like, it's okay to have these like wildly inappropriate things 00:38:38.372 --> 00:38:40.052 that in your head were very funny. 00:38:40.892 --> 00:38:43.262 It happens and happens. 00:38:43.442 --> 00:38:44.192 Riley Behan-Bush: No one knows people 00:38:44.192 --> 00:38:44.762 Aline Sandouk: fall. 00:38:44.762 --> 00:38:46.652 It is so satisfying. 00:38:46.652 --> 00:38:47.822 Hannah Van Ert: So satisfying. 00:38:47.882 --> 00:38:49.262 I don't very petty way. 00:38:49.292 --> 00:38:51.662 Aline Sandouk: I don't want to precipitate it, but I like to be there 00:38:51.662 --> 00:38:53.942 for their like, oh, oops, I am human. 00:38:53.972 --> 00:38:59.072 Uh, you know, but it doesn't happen very often, but yeah, I love that. 00:38:59.072 --> 00:39:00.302 Not being that person. 00:39:01.217 --> 00:39:02.807 It depends on who you say that to though. 00:39:02.807 --> 00:39:05.867 Some people will not see that as the act of kindness it is. 00:39:05.867 --> 00:39:07.697 There'll be like, oh, so you're a fuck up. 00:39:07.727 --> 00:39:07.967 Okay. 00:39:07.967 --> 00:39:08.927 Good noted. 00:39:08.957 --> 00:39:10.277 And you're like that, wasn't 00:39:10.277 --> 00:39:11.047 Hannah Van Ert: the point of my story. 00:39:11.087 --> 00:39:15.147 I want to be taught by a because it's like, oh, that makes me feel like so much. 00:39:15.177 --> 00:39:18.747 That makes me feel willing to come to you and be like, Hey, I fucked up, you 00:39:18.747 --> 00:39:20.967 Riley Behan-Bush: know, that is true. 00:39:21.927 --> 00:39:22.557 Dave Etler: That is so true. 00:39:22.557 --> 00:39:24.597 There's there's like a fucked up in company. 00:39:24.657 --> 00:39:25.737 There is like a real. 00:39:27.132 --> 00:39:29.922 I don't know, trend isn't the right word, but there's a, there's a strong thread 00:39:29.922 --> 00:39:36.912 in medical education of pretending that you're perfect because somehow it lends 00:39:36.912 --> 00:39:38.682 you credibility when you're teaching. 00:39:40.152 --> 00:39:44.682 And I think the better teachers are probably the people who 00:39:44.682 --> 00:39:48.072 use their own screw ups as. 00:39:48.987 --> 00:39:51.567 A teaching moment, not the scripts of other people, 00:39:52.427 --> 00:39:52.637 Jessica De Haan: right. 00:39:52.647 --> 00:39:52.857 Where they're 00:39:52.857 --> 00:39:53.457 Dave Etler: making fun of it. 00:39:53.817 --> 00:39:54.297 Right. 00:39:55.087 --> 00:39:58.737 As in your case, Hannah, your screw up don't 00:39:58.737 --> 00:40:00.627 Hannah Van Ert: wipe medical gunk off of a very 00:40:00.627 --> 00:40:00.987 Riley Behan-Bush: sharp. 00:40:01.077 --> 00:40:01.347 I was 00:40:01.347 --> 00:40:02.487 Dave Etler: thinking of your shaky hands. 00:40:04.977 --> 00:40:08.397 Riley Behan-Bush: well, I mean, there was nothing more disarming than, I 00:40:08.397 --> 00:40:10.467 mean, as we all do, like you put. 00:40:11.062 --> 00:40:15.022 One like part a into the part B tube and you know, you shouldn't have, and 00:40:15.022 --> 00:40:16.612 you basically messed up the whole thing. 00:40:16.612 --> 00:40:17.992 And there was nothing like now 00:40:17.992 --> 00:40:18.682 Dave Etler: the whole lab 00:40:18.682 --> 00:40:19.402 Riley Behan-Bush: smells. 00:40:19.432 --> 00:40:19.642 Yeah. 00:40:19.672 --> 00:40:24.532 Or something where you wasted, wasted, you know, 48 hours of your life or two 00:40:24.532 --> 00:40:27.862 weeks of your life, because you've just made the wrong mistake and you labeled 00:40:27.862 --> 00:40:30.232 wrong or whatever, and you grabbed the wrong one and your mind went to. 00:40:30.872 --> 00:40:32.552 Regardless, everyone makes these mistakes. 00:40:32.552 --> 00:40:35.372 If you work in a lab and, or just like in medicine, at some point you're 00:40:35.372 --> 00:40:39.032 bound to like grab the wrong thing and make like, what is a pretty tiny 00:40:39.032 --> 00:40:42.092 mistake, but feels very large in the scheme of whatever you're doing. 00:40:42.752 --> 00:40:46.322 And like, I went to my PI for the first time and I was like, Hey. 00:40:47.292 --> 00:40:48.042 Messed up. 00:40:48.042 --> 00:40:51.792 I pipetted the wrong thing and the wrong well, and now I don't know 00:40:51.792 --> 00:40:55.182 what, which well is which, and he was like, oh, I did that all the time. 00:40:55.482 --> 00:40:58.122 He's like, oh, I would do that all the time. 00:40:58.122 --> 00:41:01.572 Like I would do two week experiments and I would mess that up. 00:41:01.602 --> 00:41:05.202 Mind you, this man, like, I have like a large respect for him too. 00:41:05.202 --> 00:41:09.042 Like I, in my mind, I'm like, you are very smart and I respect what you do very much. 00:41:09.312 --> 00:41:12.102 And so to hear that, like, yeah, I would do that all the time. 00:41:12.192 --> 00:41:13.902 Here's like a couple of tricks that you won't do. 00:41:14.487 --> 00:41:15.147 In the future. 00:41:15.147 --> 00:41:18.297 And like, it was truly like the best teaching moment. 00:41:18.327 --> 00:41:20.577 I was never like embarrassed by it. 00:41:20.577 --> 00:41:25.227 Now I tell every undergrad I work with like, Hey, here's the mistake I've made. 00:41:25.227 --> 00:41:28.677 Here's the tool that I learned that helps me to not make that mistake again, 00:41:28.917 --> 00:41:32.547 understanding that when you're pipetting into 96, little small holes, you're 00:41:32.547 --> 00:41:37.827 bound to like mess, like mess up where you are in the 96, little small holes. 00:41:37.827 --> 00:41:40.737 So like to learn that right up and to not have. 00:41:41.462 --> 00:41:44.162 Oh, my God, you just wasted us 48 hours. 00:41:44.162 --> 00:41:45.962 You wasted us a thousand dollars. 00:41:45.962 --> 00:41:47.582 Like, no, it was just like, yeah, I did that. 00:41:48.422 --> 00:41:48.902 If you're a 00:41:48.902 --> 00:41:51.332 Dave Etler: PI working with 00:41:51.812 --> 00:41:52.742 Jessica De Haan: principal investigator, 00:41:55.102 --> 00:41:55.862 Aline Sandouk: investigator 00:41:55.892 --> 00:41:56.462 Hannah Van Ert: detective, 00:41:57.842 --> 00:41:59.792 Riley Behan-Bush: and some ways a detective of science, 00:42:01.412 --> 00:42:03.872 Dave Etler: principal investigator, and you're working with students 00:42:03.872 --> 00:42:06.722 who are less experienced than you are far less experienced than you. 00:42:06.932 --> 00:42:07.952 You'd better be budgeted. 00:42:10.542 --> 00:42:14.052 Aline Sandouk: Oh, yeah, 175%, however long it takes you. 00:42:14.202 --> 00:42:14.352 I 00:42:14.352 --> 00:42:16.902 Dave Etler: mean, you, you know, so, you know, don't try 00:42:16.902 --> 00:42:17.742 to make mistakes, but yeah. 00:42:17.772 --> 00:42:18.012 Even 00:42:18.012 --> 00:42:19.542 Riley Behan-Bush: as like a grad student, like there's nothing 00:42:19.542 --> 00:42:20.592 more embarrassing than that. 00:42:20.592 --> 00:42:26.052 Like first mistake of like, I lost a whole sample and I just spent so much 00:42:26.052 --> 00:42:31.542 time and energy on this and I did one stupid thing and now I have to redo this. 00:42:31.542 --> 00:42:33.522 And so that like pain. 00:42:34.097 --> 00:42:37.247 Do you have a person that you can go to and be like, Hey, I made 00:42:37.247 --> 00:42:40.757 this mistake and for them to be like, no biggie, just do it again. 00:42:40.787 --> 00:42:43.067 Kind of sucks for you, but like, you know, equivalent 00:42:43.067 --> 00:42:45.797 Jessica De Haan: in the hospital, which I've seen, which is my pet 00:42:45.797 --> 00:42:50.087 peeve is, um, an attending will say something to a resident. 00:42:50.087 --> 00:42:52.037 Hey, I want you to do X, Y, Z. 00:42:52.457 --> 00:42:52.757 Oh yeah. 00:42:52.787 --> 00:42:53.027 Sure. 00:42:53.027 --> 00:42:53.357 Got it. 00:42:53.687 --> 00:42:54.707 Attending walks away. 00:42:55.157 --> 00:42:58.667 Resident turns to the other residents and I'm overhearing as a studio. 00:42:59.382 --> 00:43:00.552 What, what do they want? 00:43:00.732 --> 00:43:02.862 I don't under what, what was the thing they're asking for? 00:43:02.862 --> 00:43:07.482 I haven't heard, and that makes me so angry because I'm like, why don't you just 00:43:07.482 --> 00:43:10.152 ask, are you that afraid of looking dumb? 00:43:10.182 --> 00:43:10.572 You know, 00:43:12.432 --> 00:43:15.942 Dave Etler: I mean, I, I would say that it's probably better. 00:43:15.942 --> 00:43:19.902 It's just not easy to do, but I would say it's probably better to just act. 00:43:21.192 --> 00:43:22.332 Including when you're uncertain. 00:43:22.842 --> 00:43:25.752 And by that, I mean, admit to your uncertainty, there's 00:43:25.752 --> 00:43:26.502 nothing wrong with that. 00:43:26.892 --> 00:43:30.732 And just be like, okay, I'm happy to do that. 00:43:30.762 --> 00:43:35.622 Can you give me a little more information and just be like, yeah, I don't know that 00:43:35.892 --> 00:43:36.162 Jessica De Haan: thing. 00:43:36.192 --> 00:43:38.982 And I find that the really intelligent people you work with appreciate. 00:43:39.767 --> 00:43:43.877 I was just on a rotation where I'll say shout out to the clinical 00:43:43.877 --> 00:43:45.527 microbiome rotation with Dr. 00:43:45.527 --> 00:43:45.857 Ford. 00:43:45.887 --> 00:43:50.417 I mean, that guy has good 20 to 30 IQ points on me and he can just talk a 00:43:50.417 --> 00:43:52.187 mile a minute and I would just stop him. 00:43:53.142 --> 00:43:53.412 Okay. 00:43:53.412 --> 00:43:55.272 I didn't understand the last two sentences. 00:43:55.272 --> 00:43:56.802 You said, can you please go back? 00:43:56.802 --> 00:44:00.702 Cause there's like a foundation there that I'm missing and you could ask him 00:44:00.702 --> 00:44:05.352 anything from a kindergarten level to a PhD level question and he had complete 00:44:05.352 --> 00:44:09.162 comfort and answering the full spectrum, you know, for you how refreshing. 00:44:09.162 --> 00:44:11.862 And I was like kind of wondering what my Eva was going to be like, but he 00:44:11.862 --> 00:44:13.752 actually said, you know, she challenges. 00:44:14.322 --> 00:44:18.402 Come across to others as facts would, you know, as a good trait that it's 00:44:18.402 --> 00:44:22.632 good to be like, let me challenge the assumptions that are foundational here 00:44:22.632 --> 00:44:24.432 that maybe we're not all up to speed on. 00:44:24.822 --> 00:44:28.752 And I think that it's people who are really insecure with their knowledge 00:44:28.752 --> 00:44:30.582 base, that don't like, the questions 00:44:30.582 --> 00:44:31.502 Riley Behan-Bush: is what I've noticed. 00:44:31.692 --> 00:44:33.912 I think one really great way to do that. 00:44:33.912 --> 00:44:37.152 If you're not willing to just be like, Hey, I didn't understand 00:44:37.152 --> 00:44:38.382 it like a great way to do that. 00:44:38.382 --> 00:44:40.212 That kind of twist it is to say. 00:44:41.027 --> 00:44:43.967 Hey, I just want to like reiterate what I think I got from that. 00:44:44.177 --> 00:44:47.137 Cause I think that's a really, like both of those are key to be able to 00:44:47.147 --> 00:44:49.097 like, Hey, this is what I got from that. 00:44:49.667 --> 00:44:53.567 Tell me where, like I missed something part of the American heart 00:44:53.567 --> 00:44:57.617 Jessica De Haan: association, closed loop communication guidelines, which you take 00:44:57.617 --> 00:45:00.947 a test on and say you're going to do, but then we don't actually see done that much. 00:45:01.637 --> 00:45:03.227 You know, I mean, in the code you will. 00:45:03.227 --> 00:45:03.347 And 00:45:03.347 --> 00:45:04.037 Hannah Van Ert: I get it for those 00:45:04.037 --> 00:45:07.577 Riley Behan-Bush: purposes, but, but it is like a really good skill to be. 00:45:08.937 --> 00:45:15.267 To actually ask when you don't know something and, or to try to resynthesize 00:45:15.307 --> 00:45:16.977 information and tell it back to them. 00:45:17.217 --> 00:45:18.237 I do this all the time. 00:45:18.237 --> 00:45:22.137 When again, people give you ID ideas and research or give 00:45:22.137 --> 00:45:23.967 you kind of tasks to do that. 00:45:23.967 --> 00:45:28.947 Just be like, okay, so you want me to do X, Y, Z, anything else that I missed? 00:45:28.947 --> 00:45:31.167 And they might also be like, no, you missed it. 00:45:31.167 --> 00:45:32.397 I wanted you to do ABC. 00:45:33.082 --> 00:45:33.442 Cool. 00:45:33.472 --> 00:45:33.922 Thank you. 00:45:33.982 --> 00:45:34.432 Got it. 00:45:34.462 --> 00:45:34.642 Got it. 00:45:34.642 --> 00:45:34.822 Got it. 00:45:34.852 --> 00:45:35.062 Got it. 00:45:35.062 --> 00:45:35.212 Got it. 00:45:35.212 --> 00:45:35.422 Got it. 00:45:35.512 --> 00:45:36.172 I'll go do that. 00:45:36.202 --> 00:45:38.032 But I think it's a really great way. 00:45:38.032 --> 00:45:38.302 And like 00:45:38.872 --> 00:45:41.062 Dave Etler: they would rather much rather they would much rather 00:45:41.062 --> 00:45:44.362 you do that, then screw it up. 00:45:44.362 --> 00:45:47.662 Waste time because of your assumptions or because they, yeah. 00:45:48.322 --> 00:45:49.162 Said it wrong or, 00:45:49.222 --> 00:45:49.882 Riley Behan-Bush: you know, whatever. 00:45:49.882 --> 00:45:52.762 And I like to subscribe to this idea of like little failures every day. 00:45:52.762 --> 00:45:55.552 Like you're probably gonna mess up a little bit every day. 00:45:55.552 --> 00:45:59.062 And like for anyone out there that's struggling with the idea of like 00:45:59.062 --> 00:46:04.342 perfectionism or just, they are afraid to fail, like go into a coffee 00:46:04.342 --> 00:46:07.492 shop, ask for like a beer in them. 00:46:07.522 --> 00:46:11.332 Tell, you know, like literally hearing that no, and be like, okay, cool. 00:46:11.332 --> 00:46:14.122 Like find ways in which you are literally going to. 00:46:14.687 --> 00:46:19.337 Like find a way in which you can try to like, ask a question that may like not 00:46:19.337 --> 00:46:22.367 be the greatest question ever, but like, you're going to get an answer from it. 00:46:22.367 --> 00:46:24.917 So like seek out those little moments of failure. 00:46:24.947 --> 00:46:28.307 I think for me as a person who has like, kind of worked her way through 00:46:28.307 --> 00:46:32.387 perfectionism to give a little bit less of a shit about herself, like, 00:46:32.447 --> 00:46:37.127 it's so powerful to just say, oh, I don't, I can go out and I can fill. 00:46:37.697 --> 00:46:41.027 Give ideas to people that are way above my pay grade. 00:46:41.297 --> 00:46:44.627 And like, it might be a bad idea or they might've thought about it like three 00:46:44.627 --> 00:46:48.497 years ago, but now I'm not so afraid to fail because I've done these other 00:46:48.497 --> 00:46:50.447 little things in which I've been told. 00:46:50.447 --> 00:46:50.897 No. 00:46:51.077 --> 00:46:53.777 So it doesn't have to always be like, oh my gosh, I failed. 00:46:53.777 --> 00:46:54.917 I'm going to get fired. 00:46:54.977 --> 00:46:55.577 It can be. 00:46:56.347 --> 00:46:59.107 Oh, my gosh, I failed in that's it. 00:46:59.197 --> 00:47:00.067 And it's not a big deal. 00:47:00.577 --> 00:47:04.057 Aline Sandouk: You know, I think the common thread that I'm getting from our 00:47:04.057 --> 00:47:08.497 conversation is like, what really helps is to frame it from the perspective of 00:47:08.497 --> 00:47:12.637 like, what would go wrong if you don't ask this question of like, Hey, I just want 00:47:12.637 --> 00:47:14.827 to make sure we don't throw $10,000 away. 00:47:14.827 --> 00:47:18.067 So let me just clarify, you know, it's like, I'm not the fuck up. 00:47:18.097 --> 00:47:21.217 I just want to prevent an inconvenience that would affect all of 00:47:21.217 --> 00:47:21.547 Jessica De Haan: us. 00:47:21.577 --> 00:47:21.937 Right. 00:47:22.177 --> 00:47:24.787 I tell you a situation that I feel like displays this. 00:47:25.542 --> 00:47:26.292 Chernobyl. 00:47:26.742 --> 00:47:26.932 Oh, 00:47:27.422 --> 00:47:28.002 Hannah Van Ert: you watched that. 00:47:29.142 --> 00:47:30.762 I was obsessed with a good 00:47:30.762 --> 00:47:34.782 Jessica De Haan: example of an institutional problem where you're just 00:47:34.782 --> 00:47:39.072 like, I can't override the hierarchy and I know something's wrong, but this person 00:47:39.072 --> 00:47:40.842 wants to pretend like everything's fine. 00:47:40.872 --> 00:47:42.672 And then the problem just keeps getting 00:47:42.672 --> 00:47:43.032 Riley Behan-Bush: worse. 00:47:43.032 --> 00:47:44.472 Snowball snowball. 00:47:44.892 --> 00:47:47.082 Dave Etler: We go out on a limb here and say, I'm not sure that 00:47:47.082 --> 00:47:48.402 the Russians have learned that 00:47:50.652 --> 00:47:51.492 Riley Behan-Bush: the Russians aren't listen. 00:47:51.492 --> 00:47:52.152 I'm just going to. 00:47:53.012 --> 00:47:55.532 Aline Sandouk: The government should not the people for anyone listening 00:47:55.652 --> 00:47:57.272 thinks that we're anti Russo, you know, 00:47:59.612 --> 00:48:02.402 Dave Etler: um, uh, getting back to Josh's question. 00:48:03.807 --> 00:48:07.047 Walking into a room and disarming people disarming the patient. 00:48:07.317 --> 00:48:08.547 Riley Behan-Bush: I have an idea for him. 00:48:08.787 --> 00:48:09.627 I think I do too. 00:48:10.707 --> 00:48:13.647 Aline Sandouk: So, uh, do you guys remember the cartoon, Mr. 00:48:13.647 --> 00:48:14.157 Magoo? 00:48:15.627 --> 00:48:16.347 Jessica De Haan: Really like 00:48:16.347 --> 00:48:19.137 Aline Sandouk: the, the big glasses and that's the big cultural joke is 00:48:19.137 --> 00:48:21.447 that he has he's very near-sighted. 00:48:21.447 --> 00:48:23.197 And so he wears these Coke bottle glasses. 00:48:23.872 --> 00:48:26.422 For really, for older people who remember that cartoon, it'd be really 00:48:26.422 --> 00:48:27.652 funny when he becomes a doctor. 00:48:27.652 --> 00:48:28.462 It'd be like, it's Dr. 00:48:28.462 --> 00:48:29.392 Magoo, not Mr. 00:48:29.392 --> 00:48:32.452 Miguel graduate. 00:48:32.482 --> 00:48:33.982 That could be fun if you have an interesting 00:48:33.982 --> 00:48:35.872 Dave Etler: last name, that'll work with the older folks. 00:48:35.902 --> 00:48:37.902 Riley Behan-Bush: Yeah, that's what I was thinking for. 00:48:38.362 --> 00:48:39.442 Uh, my last name. 00:48:39.442 --> 00:48:42.352 So now being a hyphenated, last name, some people could roll. 00:48:42.352 --> 00:48:44.482 Some eyes are just like, you know, say one or the other. 00:48:44.662 --> 00:48:47.452 So I see a world in which I'll go on and say, Hey, I'm Dr. 00:48:47.452 --> 00:48:47.932 Ben Bush. 00:48:47.932 --> 00:48:48.472 Call me Dr. 00:48:48.472 --> 00:48:49.312 B and call me Dr. 00:48:49.312 --> 00:48:49.582 Bush. 00:48:49.612 --> 00:48:50.152 Call me Dr. 00:48:50.152 --> 00:48:50.542 B school. 00:48:51.117 --> 00:48:52.857 Or just call me doc, I don't care. 00:48:53.007 --> 00:48:53.457 That's it? 00:48:53.457 --> 00:48:57.057 And so like going through that and so giving them options, cause I always liked 00:48:57.057 --> 00:48:59.607 when doctors would be like, call me this. 00:48:59.607 --> 00:49:02.547 And I think it's very disarming or I'll be like call me Riley, 00:49:02.577 --> 00:49:03.687 depending on the patient. 00:49:03.687 --> 00:49:07.287 And so I think that is a really good way once you're to that level, 00:49:07.287 --> 00:49:09.777 to just like disarm people and you kind of seem like the glue. 00:49:09.817 --> 00:49:10.437 I got one. 00:49:10.497 --> 00:49:15.197 Jessica De Haan: So, and so now that I'm married, my name is . And so in, in, in 00:49:15.197 --> 00:49:18.377 the military, the guys were giving me a hard time because my hands were like, as 00:49:18.377 --> 00:49:20.147 big as theirs, I have like big girl hands. 00:49:20.537 --> 00:49:22.997 And, um, so then when I got married, they were like, your 00:49:22.997 --> 00:49:24.677 name is literally the hands. 00:49:26.297 --> 00:49:27.167 And I was like, no, it's too hot. 00:49:27.167 --> 00:49:28.777 And they're like, it's a hand. 00:49:29.417 --> 00:49:32.657 So I think like, you know, it'd be like, yeah, my name is Dr. 00:49:32.657 --> 00:49:33.167 Dohan. 00:49:33.167 --> 00:49:35.327 I've got the great hands for surgery. 00:49:35.327 --> 00:49:36.137 I don't know something corny. 00:49:36.137 --> 00:49:36.887 I gotta, I gotta work 00:49:36.887 --> 00:49:37.257 Riley Behan-Bush: on it. 00:49:37.957 --> 00:49:38.117 I 00:49:38.587 --> 00:49:39.227 Hannah Van Ert: got a workshop. 00:49:39.257 --> 00:49:41.357 So yeah, my last name is van it's. 00:49:41.397 --> 00:49:42.137 Literally VA. 00:49:43.172 --> 00:49:45.782 So when I'm trying to explain it to people, I'll say like van ERT. 00:49:45.782 --> 00:49:49.862 So you're driving a van, you slam on the brakes, like nice, very 00:49:49.892 --> 00:49:50.252 Jessica De Haan: funny. 00:49:50.282 --> 00:49:51.302 Another Dutch name, right? 00:49:51.332 --> 00:49:52.172 It's a very Dutch name. 00:49:52.172 --> 00:49:52.412 Yeah. 00:49:52.472 --> 00:49:52.892 Her husband's 00:49:52.892 --> 00:49:53.222 Hannah Van Ert: Dutch, 00:49:53.652 --> 00:49:56.552 Aline Sandouk: you know, something, I see a lot of hyphenated names, 00:49:56.582 --> 00:50:00.452 doctors do is, uh, they'll just like for you to be like Dr. 00:50:00.452 --> 00:50:00.962 BB. 00:50:01.352 --> 00:50:05.012 So I see it, like, there's a doctor at the VA I work with and he has a hyphenate name 00:50:05.012 --> 00:50:06.532 and it's just like, people call them BK. 00:50:07.507 --> 00:50:08.127 Fucking awesome. 00:50:09.337 --> 00:50:10.047 Riley Behan-Bush: I didn't say no. 00:50:10.057 --> 00:50:11.667 Whatever doctors are like going by. 00:50:12.267 --> 00:50:13.287 So cool 00:50:17.067 --> 00:50:17.607 nickname. 00:50:21.207 --> 00:50:23.337 Dave Etler: I don't think you need any of this stuff. 00:50:25.947 --> 00:50:29.367 Riley Behan-Bush: Literally just answering the question because 00:50:29.367 --> 00:50:30.837 you brought us back arrested. 00:50:30.867 --> 00:50:31.407 I knew I 00:50:31.407 --> 00:50:33.497 Dave Etler: was going to say, well, I tried to bring it back around and 00:50:33.507 --> 00:50:34.977 you guys went off on your thing again. 00:50:35.277 --> 00:50:40.467 I'm just saying like, I don't think you need any of this walk in genuine 00:50:40.467 --> 00:50:45.717 smile, open up, you know, have good eye contact, have good body language. 00:50:46.257 --> 00:50:46.977 Listen carefully. 00:50:48.192 --> 00:50:51.492 Mirroring guys know about mirroring where you sort of. 00:50:52.572 --> 00:50:57.612 The other person, I mean, don't be crazy about it. 00:50:59.922 --> 00:51:01.452 Listener Josh: You gravitate, you grab a tissue, 00:51:04.152 --> 00:51:07.332 Dave Etler: they vomit you vomit, but not on 00:51:07.332 --> 00:51:07.722 Riley Behan-Bush: the shoes, 00:51:12.552 --> 00:51:13.362 Dave Etler: carefully thing. 00:51:13.362 --> 00:51:14.082 This is a tough, 00:51:16.412 --> 00:51:17.142 Jessica De Haan: very relevant. 00:51:21.007 --> 00:51:22.417 Riley Behan-Bush: Oh, you got in so many call backs. 00:51:23.467 --> 00:51:25.447 I hope you are not just listening to this part. 00:51:27.517 --> 00:51:30.067 Dave Etler: The listen carefully thing I think is tough because you know, now you 00:51:30.087 --> 00:51:32.827 got to sit down and you got to type in notes to a computer and stuff like that. 00:51:33.067 --> 00:51:35.467 Um, which I think during a clinical encounter can. 00:51:36.467 --> 00:51:37.667 That can be a little bit of a problem. 00:51:37.667 --> 00:51:38.087 I did. 00:51:38.147 --> 00:51:41.537 I have seen people do this very effectively by, you know, if you 00:51:41.537 --> 00:51:43.877 need to take notes, you know, wait until you've heard their story. 00:51:44.597 --> 00:51:47.957 And then you say, well, I need to take a minute to enter 00:51:47.957 --> 00:51:49.517 this into your medical record. 00:51:49.607 --> 00:51:50.627 Just give me a second. 00:51:51.197 --> 00:51:54.587 Um, and then as you go, you can ask follow up questions just to make sure that you 00:51:55.067 --> 00:51:56.417 understood what it is you're writing. 00:51:57.497 --> 00:52:00.887 Um, and you know, I think that, I think that act alone 00:52:00.887 --> 00:52:02.807 will go a long way to making. 00:52:04.347 --> 00:52:06.807 The patient feels like they've been heard and they're having a good, 00:52:07.647 --> 00:52:09.657 you know, a good clinical encounter. 00:52:09.657 --> 00:52:13.797 I mean, you know, I was reading a 2018 study in the journal of general internal 00:52:13.797 --> 00:52:16.797 medicine that found that it's common for docs to interrupt the patient. 00:52:16.797 --> 00:52:17.967 After only 11 seconds, 00:52:18.517 --> 00:52:19.797 Jessica De Haan: I used to be like 13. 00:52:19.977 --> 00:52:21.597 So now the average is going down 00:52:21.927 --> 00:52:24.837 Dave Etler: and, and with some interrupting as early as three 00:52:24.837 --> 00:52:26.217 seconds, if you can imagine that. 00:52:27.102 --> 00:52:27.552 Good morning. 00:52:27.582 --> 00:52:27.642 Oh, 00:52:27.642 --> 00:52:28.032 Jessica De Haan: hang on. 00:52:29.592 --> 00:52:30.282 Dave Etler: I mean, I don't know. 00:52:30.492 --> 00:52:30.792 Yeah. 00:52:31.662 --> 00:52:35.562 Um, you know, so just listening is, you know, I, you know, you 00:52:35.562 --> 00:52:37.902 don't need to, I don't know that you need to walk in with a. 00:52:39.322 --> 00:52:43.242 Um, you probably just need to, I mean, yeah, again, you gotta read the room. 00:52:43.602 --> 00:52:46.542 Hannah Van Ert: So I was thinking of, yeah, less about equip and my, my 00:52:46.572 --> 00:52:48.462 own personal, like family med doctor. 00:52:49.492 --> 00:52:52.722 I just love her because you walk, like she walks into the room and you know, 00:52:52.722 --> 00:52:56.352 she's always kind of like 20 minutes late cause that's family medicine and, 00:52:56.382 --> 00:53:01.062 but she takes the time and she, she writes down a lot of stuff on like 00:53:01.062 --> 00:53:02.352 the piece of paper she brings in. 00:53:02.352 --> 00:53:03.912 And then she'll kind of do what you say. 00:53:03.912 --> 00:53:06.222 She'll take a minute, we'll talk and she'll ask me these. 00:53:07.347 --> 00:53:11.337 She'll spend like a decent five minutes talking about like how school 00:53:11.637 --> 00:53:14.067 and like not medical stuff at all. 00:53:14.127 --> 00:53:16.287 And then they'll kind of work into how are you sleeping? 00:53:16.287 --> 00:53:16.857 How are you eating? 00:53:16.857 --> 00:53:17.727 What are your concerns? 00:53:18.117 --> 00:53:19.947 And I just really love that. 00:53:19.947 --> 00:53:23.607 I like, I love going to see her because she's, and she's very personable. 00:53:23.607 --> 00:53:26.727 Like she looks here dead in the eyes and she talks to you and she smiles and she 00:53:26.727 --> 00:53:29.727 seems generally interested, like genuinely interested in what you have to say. 00:53:30.207 --> 00:53:33.987 And so, yeah, for me, it's less about necessarily a Quip, but more of the Islam. 00:53:35.542 --> 00:53:36.292 Being interested 00:53:36.292 --> 00:53:36.892 Riley Behan-Bush: in your patient. 00:53:37.322 --> 00:53:37.712 Dave Etler: Right. 00:53:37.802 --> 00:53:43.502 just asking about your patient's life, if you like talking about themselves, number 00:53:43.502 --> 00:53:48.032 one, and number two helps you get to know your patient, which is supposed to be 00:53:48.032 --> 00:53:51.502 part of the, the, uh, Patient encounter. 00:53:51.742 --> 00:53:52.162 Hannah Van Ert: Yeah. 00:53:52.222 --> 00:53:52.792 It's going to say it's 00:53:52.792 --> 00:53:55.492 Aline Sandouk: not just nice, like that's valuable information because 00:53:55.492 --> 00:53:58.252 suppose they're coming in with like palpitations and then you find 00:53:58.252 --> 00:53:59.992 out like, oh, you hate your job. 00:54:00.082 --> 00:54:00.412 Okay. 00:54:00.412 --> 00:54:01.512 Let's talk about that. 00:54:01.522 --> 00:54:03.172 You know, maybe it's not a heart problem. 00:54:03.172 --> 00:54:05.512 You have, your life is stressful. 00:54:05.512 --> 00:54:05.812 So 00:54:05.842 --> 00:54:07.102 Riley Behan-Bush: there's nothing that makes me feel more 00:54:07.102 --> 00:54:08.512 special when I go to a doctor. 00:54:08.512 --> 00:54:12.202 And the first thing they do when they walk in is recall something that we've 00:54:12.202 --> 00:54:15.022 talked about years probably before. 00:54:15.527 --> 00:54:18.467 Or, and so it's probably harder as a medical student to do that 00:54:18.467 --> 00:54:20.807 because you don't get as much continuity with your patients. 00:54:20.807 --> 00:54:22.517 Some do, and that's really awesome. 00:54:22.847 --> 00:54:27.287 But even then there's sometimes notes and you'll see again, teenagers are 00:54:27.287 --> 00:54:30.767 easier, but maybe you can figure out what year in school they are. 00:54:30.767 --> 00:54:34.072 And so here are you graduating this year, like, Yeah. 00:54:34.072 --> 00:54:35.962 I've never met you in my entire life. 00:54:35.992 --> 00:54:37.042 How would you know this information? 00:54:37.042 --> 00:54:41.842 I think it's, it's very, it's cool to have taken that extra moment as 00:54:41.842 --> 00:54:45.442 a doctor, but also like as a patient to hear like, oh my gosh, thank you 00:54:45.442 --> 00:54:48.172 so much for asking about X, Y, or Z. 00:54:48.172 --> 00:54:49.552 That is so cool of you. 00:54:49.552 --> 00:54:51.922 And then I instantly respect them so 00:54:51.922 --> 00:54:53.632 Dave Etler: much more if you don't want to take the T here's. 00:54:53.632 --> 00:54:55.462 The thing my doctor does, if you don't want to take the chance of. 00:54:56.467 --> 00:54:59.437 Something and maybe having it fall flat every time he walks in the 00:54:59.437 --> 00:55:00.607 room, he says, you're looking well. 00:55:02.977 --> 00:55:05.887 I mean, you know, just a little thing, like you're looking well, 00:55:06.337 --> 00:55:08.257 Aline Sandouk: you know what I just thought about for teenagers? 00:55:08.857 --> 00:55:13.597 Um, not tic-tac no, not, well, tick-box a great one, but something I remember I 00:55:13.597 --> 00:55:15.217 did this and then I never did it again. 00:55:20.662 --> 00:55:21.112 Riley Behan-Bush: teenagers. 00:55:23.002 --> 00:55:26.212 Aline Sandouk: you mentioned that that's like it it's paleontology. 00:55:26.242 --> 00:55:27.832 No one, no one flosses anymore. 00:55:28.072 --> 00:55:29.182 By the time it gets to us. 00:55:30.022 --> 00:55:32.302 But the thing I've noticed teenagers seem to like is when you ask them, 00:55:32.302 --> 00:55:35.902 what kind of music they're listening to lately or TV shows, are you, 00:55:35.962 --> 00:55:37.822 did you see any cool movies lately? 00:55:38.547 --> 00:55:40.497 People will, you know, sometimes I'll be like now. 00:55:41.187 --> 00:55:41.367 All right. 00:55:41.367 --> 00:55:41.487 Ready? 00:55:41.757 --> 00:55:42.027 Dave Etler: Wow. 00:55:42.087 --> 00:55:43.667 Well, teenagers are a tough nut to crack. 00:55:43.677 --> 00:55:43.827 Yeah. 00:55:44.817 --> 00:55:47.427 Hey, uh, you got to go, oh yeah. 00:55:49.117 --> 00:55:50.577 Jessica De Haan: I have a zoom zoom 00:55:50.577 --> 00:55:50.907 Dave Etler: call. 00:55:51.207 --> 00:55:53.427 This has become the Josh Magoo show. 00:55:55.017 --> 00:55:56.697 I'm happy we had it. 00:55:56.757 --> 00:55:58.077 I loved this. 00:55:58.257 --> 00:55:59.937 I had a whole bunch of other shit to talk about. 00:56:00.862 --> 00:56:01.612 We didn't do that. 00:56:01.792 --> 00:56:03.232 Riley Behan-Bush: You told us, you told us to talk. 00:56:03.862 --> 00:56:04.552 That's the point? 00:56:05.152 --> 00:56:05.932 Fantastic. 00:56:06.982 --> 00:56:09.652 Aline Sandouk: And there was a lot of very valuable information we shared 00:56:09.652 --> 00:56:10.852 say, oh, I'll tell you that story. 00:56:11.152 --> 00:56:13.192 When we hang up, when we hang up the call. 00:56:18.382 --> 00:56:18.802 Phones 00:56:18.802 --> 00:56:19.342 Riley Behan-Bush: anymore. 00:56:19.912 --> 00:56:22.852 It's funny to get any information, valuable information from this 00:56:22.852 --> 00:56:25.882 episode, the listener must have listened to every moment of it. 00:56:25.882 --> 00:56:30.442 Like you couldn't skip any because our callbacks, there was just like pieces of 00:56:30.442 --> 00:56:32.452 information that we then circled back to. 00:56:32.452 --> 00:56:33.442 And like five minutes ago. 00:56:34.882 --> 00:56:35.452 Dave Etler: No, he won't. 00:56:35.452 --> 00:56:36.772 This is a show of chaos. 00:56:37.402 --> 00:56:38.152 That's fine. 00:56:39.172 --> 00:56:39.802 That's our show. 00:56:40.702 --> 00:56:43.432 Hannah Riley, Jess Alene. 00:56:43.702 --> 00:56:45.412 Thanks for being on the show with me today. 00:56:45.412 --> 00:56:45.952 I appreciate it. 00:56:48.682 --> 00:56:51.802 Uh, and what kind of person would I be if I didn't think you shortcuts 00:56:51.802 --> 00:56:53.572 for making us part of your week, if you knew her and you liked what 00:56:53.572 --> 00:56:54.562 you heard today, follow the show. 00:56:54.562 --> 00:56:56.272 Wherever fine podcasts are available. 00:56:56.272 --> 00:56:59.992 Like Spotify, apple podcasts, Google podcasts, and YouTube, our editors. 00:57:00.547 --> 00:57:04.657 R Maddie Wallin and me, I guess because Nick, Nick graduated. 00:57:06.487 --> 00:57:06.877 Listener Josh: Oh God, 00:57:08.677 --> 00:57:09.127 Riley Behan-Bush: the shows 00:57:10.507 --> 00:57:11.527 Hannah Van Ert: this show is made possible 00:57:11.527 --> 00:57:13.987 Dave Etler: by a generous donation by Carver college medicine, student 00:57:13.987 --> 00:57:16.117 government, and ongoing support from the writing and humanities program. 00:57:16.567 --> 00:57:17.407 Our music is by Dr. 00:57:17.407 --> 00:57:18.097 Vox and cabins for you. 00:57:18.097 --> 00:57:19.927 I'm Dave Eller saying, don't let the bastards get you down. 00:57:20.307 --> 00:57:21.277 Talk to you in one week.