WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.600 Welcome to this session on subscription billing for lawyers. 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:04.930 I'm Carolyn Elefant. 00:00:04.945 --> 00:00:09.570 I'm head of the financial management track and subscription billing is part of that. 00:00:09.870 --> 00:00:13.560 I know that there's always a lot of questions about subscription services 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:17.210 and there's also some skepticism about whether it can actually work in legal. 00:00:17.210 --> 00:00:22.045 And so I'm really excited that we have Mathew Kerbis, who is The Subscription 00:00:22.045 --> 00:00:25.195 Attorney who is gonna talk about subscription services and how you 00:00:25.200 --> 00:00:28.105 can use them in your practice and how he's using them in his practice. 00:00:28.355 --> 00:00:29.745 I think it's gonna be a terrific session. 00:00:29.745 --> 00:00:31.035 So thanks everyone for coming. 00:00:31.244 --> 00:00:32.004 Thank you, Carolyn. 00:00:37.430 --> 00:00:38.490 My name's Mathew Kerbis. 00:00:38.510 --> 00:00:39.650 I'm The Subscription Attorney. 00:00:39.780 --> 00:00:42.510 I'm actually not going to be talking very much about myself today, but I talk 00:00:42.510 --> 00:00:45.030 about myself a lot, mathewkerbis.com. 00:00:45.480 --> 00:00:47.070 You can see all my speaking engagements. 00:00:47.500 --> 00:00:48.820 You can learn a lot about my firm there. 00:00:48.870 --> 00:00:51.130 I will talk a little bit about myself today, but this is very broad 00:00:51.155 --> 00:00:55.020 scope cause there's all kinds of different practice areas, different 00:00:55.025 --> 00:00:56.010 ways you could implement it. 00:00:56.290 --> 00:01:00.020 We just heard in the last talk some things that I agree with wholeheartedly and 00:01:00.020 --> 00:01:01.520 some things I respectfully disagree with. 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:03.980 So there's no one right way to do it, and there's no one right 00:01:03.980 --> 00:01:05.600 way to do it for your practice. 00:01:05.650 --> 00:01:07.640 But before we get into the meat of it. 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:10.170 Well, you know, did you read the syllabus? 00:01:10.170 --> 00:01:10.950 Did you prepare? 00:01:10.950 --> 00:01:12.510 You're here because you probably read these things, right? 00:01:12.510 --> 00:01:16.320 This is what we're gonna be covering in this order, and hopefully you'll be 00:01:16.320 --> 00:01:17.520 subscribing to the subscription model. 00:01:17.520 --> 00:01:18.030 Here we go. 00:01:19.175 --> 00:01:22.565 Hypothetical one, there are only 24 hours in a day. 00:01:22.895 --> 00:01:26.705 Lucky associates, or you, if you're a solo like me, get six hours of sleep. 00:01:27.005 --> 00:01:30.365 Two hours combined of bathing, restroom breaks, eating in a day. 00:01:30.420 --> 00:01:33.120 If you need to commute, maybe one and a half hours to get there and back. 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:36.255 Family time, we'll give you a generous hour and a half. 00:01:36.305 --> 00:01:39.335 Non-billable work throughout the day is maybe two hours if you're 00:01:39.335 --> 00:01:42.785 really efficient, leaving 11 hours of possible billable time per day. 00:01:43.324 --> 00:01:46.145 But if you are an associate, your partner marks down your billable time, your 00:01:46.145 --> 00:01:48.005 clients negotiate down billable time. 00:01:48.005 --> 00:01:52.625 So only eight hours of billable time per day that a client will actually pay. 00:01:53.615 --> 00:01:54.935 Assuming everything goes smoothly. 00:01:56.375 --> 00:01:58.775 And you know, that's, that means you have to maximize your time, 00:01:58.924 --> 00:02:02.615 you have to plan in advance, engage in deep work, like batching. 00:02:03.305 --> 00:02:04.085 See, I was listening. 00:02:04.768 --> 00:02:09.023 Recording your hours right away and not putting out unexpected fires, 00:02:09.023 --> 00:02:11.413 which, you know, never happens. 00:02:12.443 --> 00:02:12.893 Ever. 00:02:13.523 --> 00:02:16.733 Unless you only check your emails twice a day and clients can't call you. 00:02:19.763 --> 00:02:24.183 So if you charge $500 an hour with 40 paid client hours per week, you know, 00:02:24.183 --> 00:02:25.563 you're about a million dollars a year. 00:02:25.563 --> 00:02:26.403 I'm rounding there. 00:02:26.713 --> 00:02:29.203 Maybe you pay your associates $100,000 to $200,000. 00:02:29.203 --> 00:02:32.713 Staff firm costs for that associate is approximately that. 00:02:32.893 --> 00:02:33.913 This is not hard data. 00:02:33.913 --> 00:02:36.493 These are just approximations for storytelling purposes. 00:02:36.713 --> 00:02:40.133 Maybe, maybe you invest a little bit back into the firm, and then 00:02:40.183 --> 00:02:41.773 the partner's pocket the rest. 00:02:41.773 --> 00:02:44.113 Assuming everything goes smoothly. 00:02:46.033 --> 00:02:47.293 How do you make more money with this model? 00:02:48.553 --> 00:02:49.843 You hire more lawyers. 00:02:50.353 --> 00:02:51.163 You bill more time. 00:02:51.853 --> 00:02:54.703 That's the only way, that's the only way to make more money 00:02:54.793 --> 00:02:56.923 with the billable hour model. 00:02:58.993 --> 00:03:00.253 What has been the result of this model? 00:03:01.243 --> 00:03:01.993 Look at the status quo. 00:03:02.863 --> 00:03:08.083 Bad mental health, substance abuse, burnout, "recovering attorney" status. 00:03:08.143 --> 00:03:12.073 How many technologists on the expo floor hall are recovering attorneys? 00:03:12.078 --> 00:03:12.573 Right. 00:03:14.065 --> 00:03:15.143 Should we be so lucky? 00:03:16.493 --> 00:03:21.143 Lack of women and attorneys of color, in Big Law leadership roles, lack of access 00:03:21.143 --> 00:03:26.603 to justice and lack of access to lawyers, re/deregulation of legal services. 00:03:26.993 --> 00:03:29.633 And they tell us not to sell from the podium. 00:03:29.633 --> 00:03:30.383 I have nothing to sell you. 00:03:30.383 --> 00:03:34.373 I'm a practicing attorney, but I do this because this is 00:03:34.373 --> 00:03:35.933 about saving the profession. 00:03:40.163 --> 00:03:41.363 Enter the subscription model? 00:03:42.263 --> 00:03:43.673 Mm, not yet. 00:03:43.973 --> 00:03:46.133 If you'll bear with me, I wanna dunk on it a little bit more. 00:03:46.863 --> 00:03:47.998 That is, the billable hour model. 00:03:48.028 --> 00:03:50.038 So why do clients negotiate the bill? 00:03:50.278 --> 00:03:54.748 Because the billable hour, it's like going to a restaurant, ordering the fish 00:03:54.748 --> 00:03:58.678 at market price, except the server can't tell you how much it's going to cost 00:03:58.828 --> 00:04:01.378 until you've finished eating the fish. 00:04:01.438 --> 00:04:04.408 That's because first, how long is it gonna take? 00:04:04.413 --> 00:04:05.578 It has to hatch in its egg. 00:04:05.583 --> 00:04:06.718 It has to grow to maturity. 00:04:06.718 --> 00:04:08.248 It has to get caught by fishermen. 00:04:08.488 --> 00:04:10.348 By the way, if the fisherman is less experienced. 00:04:10.733 --> 00:04:13.373 Then we charge less, but it's gonna take them longer. 00:04:13.373 --> 00:04:14.693 So we're actually charging you more. 00:04:15.003 --> 00:04:18.363 Fisherman needs to transport it to the distributor and so on and so on, until 00:04:18.363 --> 00:04:20.433 eventually it gets to the restaurant. 00:04:20.733 --> 00:04:22.863 Then the chef has to prepare the fish. 00:04:22.863 --> 00:04:25.503 And it's the same thing as the fisherman with the chef's experience. 00:04:25.893 --> 00:04:28.533 And then how long does it take for the server to deliver it to your plate? 00:04:28.953 --> 00:04:30.063 And then you have to eat the fish. 00:04:30.063 --> 00:04:32.193 And you know, that's when you're really getting the benefit 00:04:32.193 --> 00:04:34.173 of the restaurant services. 00:04:34.953 --> 00:04:36.153 Then you're presented with the bill. 00:04:37.023 --> 00:04:38.793 You owe the restaurant whether you like it or not. 00:04:39.483 --> 00:04:41.883 Pay up, or we'll see you in court to collect. 00:04:45.558 --> 00:04:50.258 Did I mention all restaurants charge the same, like this way, and the restaurants, 00:04:50.258 --> 00:04:51.848 by the way, they have a monopoly on fish. 00:04:52.458 --> 00:04:55.548 Good luck eating fish anywhere else that isn't a restaurant. 00:04:55.788 --> 00:04:58.888 And, and did we mention it's actually illegal for non-restaurants 00:04:58.908 --> 00:05:00.344 to provide you with fish? 00:05:03.048 --> 00:05:03.948 Would you order the fish? 00:05:05.508 --> 00:05:05.988 I wouldn't. 00:05:07.788 --> 00:05:08.958 Why do we expect our clients to? 00:05:10.668 --> 00:05:12.528 Enter the subscription model. 00:05:13.548 --> 00:05:14.118 Finally! 00:05:16.578 --> 00:05:17.598 Here are some of the benefits. 00:05:18.309 --> 00:05:22.109 Predictable, monthly recurring revenue and annual recurring revenue. 00:05:22.169 --> 00:05:25.679 This is hard in the first year, but when you have a year's worth of data to look 00:05:25.679 --> 00:05:27.089 back on, it becomes a little bit easier. 00:05:27.094 --> 00:05:29.544 But you could also look at projected growth this way. 00:05:29.754 --> 00:05:32.484 This is how a lot of tech startups project their revenue. 00:05:32.504 --> 00:05:34.034 There's so much information on this. 00:05:34.464 --> 00:05:37.314 Just, just go to, I mean start, listen to This Week in Startups 00:05:37.314 --> 00:05:39.919 and a lot of startup podcasts you can learn all about MRR and ARR. 00:05:40.469 --> 00:05:41.994 That could be an hour long presentation. 00:05:42.044 --> 00:05:43.974 Predictable and transparent pricing for clients. 00:05:44.334 --> 00:05:46.984 Hopefully you got the message with the last hypothetical. 00:05:47.014 --> 00:05:48.754 Clients are not afraid to call or contact you. 00:05:49.264 --> 00:05:52.274 So, you know, you're developing relationships with your clients. 00:05:52.804 --> 00:05:53.984 They will continue to come to you. 00:05:56.174 --> 00:05:58.714 It incentivizes you to be efficient and effective, right? 00:05:58.719 --> 00:05:59.644 So you adopt technology. 00:05:59.644 --> 00:06:00.334 Congratulations. 00:06:00.334 --> 00:06:00.914 You're at TECHSHOW. 00:06:00.984 --> 00:06:02.814 The people in this room are already ahead of the game. 00:06:04.074 --> 00:06:07.044 Scale is possible without more hiring. 00:06:08.024 --> 00:06:10.934 Overcomes a labor shortage, which we have in this profession. 00:06:12.524 --> 00:06:14.774 Doesn't mean you can't hire, it just means it allows you to scale. 00:06:15.666 --> 00:06:17.976 Lifetime value, also known as LTV in the subscription 00:06:17.976 --> 00:06:20.021 economy, for and from clients. 00:06:20.021 --> 00:06:24.461 So that means you're giving them lifetime value and they're paying you in exchange. 00:06:25.061 --> 00:06:28.991 And so instead of getting a one-time, really, really big case from a client 00:06:29.561 --> 00:06:32.411 where you make a hundred thousand dollars over the course of the 00:06:32.411 --> 00:06:36.011 lifetime that you're representing them, you can maybe make twice as much. 00:06:36.859 --> 00:06:37.279 There's huge 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:37.579 market 00:06:37.579 --> 00:06:40.579 opportunity here for institutional clients who want to cut costs. 00:06:41.031 --> 00:06:43.811 There's a blue ocean of market opportunities for clients who are 00:06:44.231 --> 00:06:47.471 previously priced out of the billable hour and traditionally priced legal 00:06:47.471 --> 00:06:50.591 services, A/K/A the Latent Legal Market. 00:06:51.669 --> 00:06:55.659 You could compete with LegalZoom, but then you could actually provide legal services. 00:06:55.689 --> 00:06:57.489 You could be your own version of LegalZoom. 00:06:58.209 --> 00:07:00.009 This is productizing legal services. 00:07:01.719 --> 00:07:04.899 And I should say, you know, it depends on your practice area, right? 00:07:04.929 --> 00:07:07.389 But for a lot of practice areas, this is an option. 00:07:08.191 --> 00:07:11.306 Some further benefits, it reduces burnout, improved mental health, 00:07:12.146 --> 00:07:15.656 attorneys are rewarded for efficiency, and it aligns incentives with clients. 00:07:16.446 --> 00:07:20.036 How, again, going back to saving the profession, how are we going to 00:07:20.036 --> 00:07:26.366 compete with other industries for talent when the four-day work week is 00:07:26.366 --> 00:07:27.836 going to be a thing, and it will be. 00:07:29.066 --> 00:07:30.206 How can we compete? 00:07:30.636 --> 00:07:33.336 When you have to bill time, that's the only way you make money. 00:07:33.726 --> 00:07:35.226 People will stop going to law school. 00:07:36.696 --> 00:07:40.326 Our profession needs to survive and if we don't make these changes, we should 00:07:40.326 --> 00:07:43.926 reregulate and deregulate to allow more alternative legal service providers. 00:07:44.136 --> 00:07:46.056 Cuz people need access to justice. 00:07:46.973 --> 00:07:52.433 So it increases access to justice and you can make more money, and that's okay. 00:07:52.463 --> 00:07:55.163 We can increase access to justice and we can make more money. 00:07:56.743 --> 00:07:58.363 Client expectations have changed. 00:07:58.723 --> 00:08:00.193 Remote meetings are expected. 00:08:00.688 --> 00:08:01.318 Which is better for you. 00:08:01.318 --> 00:08:03.598 Cause if you're not going places in person or commuting to and from an 00:08:03.598 --> 00:08:06.688 office and you have a virtual law firm, you're being more efficient with your 00:08:06.688 --> 00:08:08.428 time, which is what this is all about. 00:08:09.058 --> 00:08:11.758 You know, Zoom, Teams, Google Meet, are on most client smartphones. 00:08:11.998 --> 00:08:13.528 Easy scheduling is expected. 00:08:13.528 --> 00:08:16.318 They don't wanna have to call someone to try to get somebody on the phone. 00:08:16.318 --> 00:08:18.568 And when can you get scheduled together? 00:08:18.628 --> 00:08:20.248 We'll go into that technology soon. 00:08:20.248 --> 00:08:21.658 Cost transparency is huge. 00:08:21.808 --> 00:08:25.838 All of my prices on my website, I think I'm may be one of like eight attorneys 00:08:25.838 --> 00:08:27.578 now that I've come across who do that. 00:08:28.709 --> 00:08:31.019 Adoption of most legal tech eliminates billable hours. 00:08:31.479 --> 00:08:33.549 Were you at the startup pitch competition? 00:08:33.875 --> 00:08:37.085 With the exception of maybe one of those startups, it all reduces billable time. 00:08:39.125 --> 00:08:42.725 Other industries do it, so why can't legal service providers? 00:08:44.465 --> 00:08:44.855 We can. 00:08:45.235 --> 00:08:46.355 So what do you need? 00:08:46.895 --> 00:08:48.665 You heard a lot about this in the last presentation. 00:08:48.845 --> 00:08:50.425 Client portal, really important. 00:08:50.425 --> 00:08:54.430 Online payments, client relationship manager, CRM, newsletter tool, 00:08:54.430 --> 00:08:56.200 if it's not already built into some of these other things. 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:57.280 A lot of these are bundled. 00:08:57.490 --> 00:09:00.640 A lot of the legal tech client portal solutions have a lot of these bundled. 00:09:00.850 --> 00:09:02.740 Though for a lot of reasons, they're not really built for the 00:09:02.740 --> 00:09:04.790 subscription model and you'll see a lot of time keeping on them. 00:09:04.810 --> 00:09:07.720 Unless you're looking at Fidu who's in the back, represent. 00:09:08.410 --> 00:09:10.450 They were my winners for the pitch competition. 00:09:10.780 --> 00:09:14.770 You know, a lot of these tools, legal tech tools are not, are not doing it. 00:09:14.770 --> 00:09:17.230 Which is why when I got started I was using non-legal tech. 00:09:17.470 --> 00:09:18.340 Scheduling. 00:09:18.500 --> 00:09:19.940 That's just an internet phone. 00:09:20.570 --> 00:09:22.460 Secure video calls, document sharing. 00:09:22.500 --> 00:09:23.520 Automate everything. 00:09:24.750 --> 00:09:27.510 Really leverage technology to automate everything that you can. 00:09:28.917 --> 00:09:30.657 Within the client portal there's matter management, 00:09:30.657 --> 00:09:32.307 private messaging, doc sharing. 00:09:32.527 --> 00:09:35.522 You should be able to do these or do your best to integrate these. 00:09:35.552 --> 00:09:37.352 When looking for a client portal solution. 00:09:38.077 --> 00:09:40.217 You should be able to set up marketing campaigns. 00:09:40.517 --> 00:09:41.177 Newsletters. 00:09:41.227 --> 00:09:44.127 Different attorneys have different opinions on, on whether or not a 00:09:44.127 --> 00:09:48.617 newsletter, or reaching out should be a benefit of a subscription. 00:09:48.887 --> 00:09:51.227 I think it can be, it doesn't mean it should be depending on 00:09:51.227 --> 00:09:52.367 your practice, but it can be. 00:09:52.497 --> 00:09:53.207 Look at Substack. 00:09:54.037 --> 00:09:57.247 People are paying just to read what other people are writing. 00:09:57.907 --> 00:10:00.907 Independent journalism is having a renaissance right now. 00:10:01.447 --> 00:10:05.227 There is actual value that you could provide in a newsletter form that keeps 00:10:05.227 --> 00:10:08.297 you sharp, that keeps you up to date on things going on and changes in the 00:10:08.302 --> 00:10:09.817 law that you're gonna be doing anyway. 00:10:09.937 --> 00:10:12.097 And why not make that a benefit to subscribers? 00:10:12.197 --> 00:10:13.847 I am an anti-SEO attorney. 00:10:14.597 --> 00:10:17.837 I take all the stuff that would normally go in a blog, and I put it into my 00:10:17.837 --> 00:10:21.437 knowledge base that's a subscriber benefit and it's actual client questions 00:10:21.437 --> 00:10:24.522 that have been asked, but with personal identifying information removed. 00:10:24.552 --> 00:10:27.372 So it's actual legal advice I've given not legal information, only 00:10:27.372 --> 00:10:30.342 accessible to paying clients, which I'm engaged with, but that's just me. 00:10:30.342 --> 00:10:31.032 You could do both. 00:10:32.142 --> 00:10:34.542 You need e-signatures, integrated, ideally. 00:10:35.095 --> 00:10:36.725 Payments, and there's different types we'll get into. 00:10:37.550 --> 00:10:39.880 Client portal ideally will power your subscriptions. 00:10:40.390 --> 00:10:43.330 I know Stripe and Gravity Legal, you can power subscriptions just 00:10:43.330 --> 00:10:46.290 through those payment platforms, but if you're using some other 00:10:46.290 --> 00:10:49.710 payment methods, you're gonna need a solution to power your subscriptions. 00:10:50.070 --> 00:10:51.660 Scheduling should integrate with your client portal. 00:10:51.660 --> 00:10:53.430 Basically everything goes in your client portal. 00:10:53.830 --> 00:10:55.560 It becomes your practice management software. 00:10:56.018 --> 00:10:59.678 Ideally, if you could get Google Workspace or Microsoft 365 to integrate, that's 00:10:59.678 --> 00:11:00.928 great, but they don't all do that. 00:11:01.488 --> 00:11:02.261 And websites. 00:11:02.368 --> 00:11:06.038 My client portal website is portal dot subscription attorney.com. 00:11:06.988 --> 00:11:08.068 So it's integrated there as well. 00:11:08.758 --> 00:11:11.188 But it doesn't have to be, but that would be more ideal. 00:11:11.918 --> 00:11:14.288 So here's some tech, Fidu, right? 00:11:14.288 --> 00:11:16.478 They exclusively help with a turnkey solution. 00:11:16.658 --> 00:11:19.511 Rally does offer it, but they don't specialize in it. 00:11:19.611 --> 00:11:22.071 Rally has a lot of offerings, including Spellbook, which is on the show 00:11:22.071 --> 00:11:26.125 floor, which incorporates I think GPT-3, with Microsoft Word, and they 00:11:26.125 --> 00:11:28.615 were sort of doing it before ChatGPT came out, which is pretty cool. 00:11:28.925 --> 00:11:32.325 But they also have a turnkey solution to launching a subscription 00:11:32.635 --> 00:11:33.835 billing model for your firm. 00:11:34.415 --> 00:11:37.135 Clio integrates with Fidu, so there you go. 00:11:38.074 --> 00:11:40.894 MyCase, with the acquisitions they've had, they have a lot of great features. 00:11:40.894 --> 00:11:41.704 Practice Panther. 00:11:41.914 --> 00:11:44.014 A lot of these client portals are on the show floor. 00:11:44.014 --> 00:11:45.154 I highly recommend you check them out. 00:11:45.834 --> 00:11:48.264 Non-legal tech, Suite Dash, this is where I am right now, though I am 00:11:48.264 --> 00:11:50.934 looking for an alternative solution, but it's done a really good job to 00:11:50.954 --> 00:11:52.864 be a minimum viable client portal. 00:11:53.216 --> 00:11:56.366 You've got Outseta, which is a subscriptions as a service business. 00:11:56.366 --> 00:12:00.316 So they help all entrepreneurs of all kinds launch subscription models. 00:12:00.316 --> 00:12:02.346 They're not as flexible as I would like, but depending on what you 00:12:02.346 --> 00:12:05.076 wanna do and you don't wanna use legal tech, that is an option. 00:12:05.416 --> 00:12:09.281 They also have a monthly fee and they take one or two percent on top of 00:12:09.286 --> 00:12:10.571 all the transactions that go through. 00:12:10.571 --> 00:12:13.061 So they're a little bit more expensive, but they are pretty cool. 00:12:13.431 --> 00:12:15.141 Copilot is a relatively new one. 00:12:15.141 --> 00:12:16.611 I have been doing research on them. 00:12:16.941 --> 00:12:18.401 They just raised a series A. 00:12:18.931 --> 00:12:21.571 Clinked, hey, Clinked made the presentation. 00:12:21.631 --> 00:12:23.341 So you know one flat fee lawyer using it. 00:12:23.771 --> 00:12:25.401 SmartVault is another one. 00:12:25.431 --> 00:12:28.891 And then Jess Birken, uses WordPress plug-ins and WooCommerce. 00:12:29.761 --> 00:12:30.941 There's MemberMouse too. 00:12:31.271 --> 00:12:35.971 Client-portal.io, and so many more if you have a WordPress website, I 00:12:35.971 --> 00:12:40.091 don't, blogging is not part of my marketing strategy, but it can be yours. 00:12:40.939 --> 00:12:42.229 So you need to automate charges. 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:45.924 When I have a client sign up through my client portal, through my website, 00:12:45.924 --> 00:12:48.564 which then gets them into my client portal, all of it's automated. 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:50.389 I never even need to interact with them. 00:12:50.389 --> 00:12:54.009 I'm notified they sign up, I could do my conflicts check, and if they pass, 00:12:54.269 --> 00:12:56.079 then I don't need to do anything. 00:12:56.619 --> 00:13:00.329 And it's all automated so all I have to do is just do a conflicts check. 00:13:00.329 --> 00:13:02.219 And soon that will be automated for me too. 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:04.349 I'm in the process, like I said, of switching some things over. 00:13:05.109 --> 00:13:07.834 But then every single month they're charged. 00:13:08.554 --> 00:13:13.094 And since my clients often will decide to pull the trigger at night, cuz 00:13:13.124 --> 00:13:15.644 all my information's on my website, they could sign up on my website. 00:13:15.694 --> 00:13:17.704 I don't even need to interact with them, but I make it really easy to 00:13:17.709 --> 00:13:18.844 do that and I'll talk about that. 00:13:19.614 --> 00:13:20.984 I literally get paid when I'm sleeping. 00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:26.579 Quick and easy payments. 00:13:26.789 --> 00:13:27.859 Gotta make 'em quick and easy. 00:13:28.309 --> 00:13:31.189 I already mentioned this, like Gravity and Stripe can power it if 00:13:31.189 --> 00:13:32.419 your client portal doesn't do it. 00:13:32.814 --> 00:13:35.684 In an ideal world, though I'm still looking for a, non-WordPress 00:13:35.704 --> 00:13:36.904 based solution to do this. 00:13:36.904 --> 00:13:38.974 If you can make it a Shopify for lawyers where they could 00:13:38.974 --> 00:13:40.264 just check out in your cart. 00:13:40.804 --> 00:13:41.584 That's ideal. 00:13:42.244 --> 00:13:45.019 And really right now, Jess Birken is the only attorney who I know who's using 00:13:45.244 --> 00:13:46.599 subscriptions, who actually does this. 00:13:47.086 --> 00:13:50.196 You could securely store credit cards for if you, depending on 00:13:50.196 --> 00:13:51.336 how you set up your fee structure. 00:13:51.876 --> 00:13:55.236 And what's really cool, what I love is I'm an attorney who takes Apple Pay, 00:13:55.416 --> 00:13:57.246 Google Pay, and foreign transactions. 00:13:57.246 --> 00:14:01.724 I've represented Canadians transacting in Illinois, and UK citizens transacting 00:14:01.724 --> 00:14:03.554 in Illinois, and it's really easy. 00:14:03.614 --> 00:14:04.604 I don't even have to worry about it. 00:14:04.604 --> 00:14:04.934 Yeah, sure. 00:14:04.934 --> 00:14:07.694 It's a little bit of an extra charge on the processing fees, but you know what? 00:14:08.174 --> 00:14:08.834 Super easy. 00:14:09.554 --> 00:14:12.614 And I do my due diligence and I make sure I comply ethically and all that stuff. 00:14:13.404 --> 00:14:14.664 I have a lot to cover and not a lot of time. 00:14:14.887 --> 00:14:17.627 Secure messaging better preserves attorney-client privilege. 00:14:17.837 --> 00:14:20.237 Arguably, if you're emailing with your clients, you're waiving 00:14:20.237 --> 00:14:21.137 attorney-client privilege. 00:14:21.137 --> 00:14:22.277 It's unsecured messaging. 00:14:22.847 --> 00:14:27.737 You should have no expectation that, that is encrypted and secure. 00:14:28.127 --> 00:14:30.617 Even if you put that little paragraph at the end that nobody reads. 00:14:32.831 --> 00:14:36.881 Certain online payment, features help you with churn reduction management. 00:14:36.886 --> 00:14:38.261 So churn is when people unsubscribe. 00:14:39.069 --> 00:14:42.634 Here are some examples, Stripe, Recurly Chargebee, Chargify, ProfitWell, Paddle, 00:14:42.634 --> 00:14:43.754 Braintree, there's a lot of them. 00:14:44.134 --> 00:14:46.534 And then for trust accounting, you've got Gravity Legal and LawPay. 00:14:46.714 --> 00:14:47.914 And LawPay is now part of MyCase. 00:14:48.607 --> 00:14:52.210 You might be able to with some of these tools, like Stripe, if you 00:14:52.210 --> 00:14:54.220 know how to code or willing to hire somebody, you might be able to 00:14:54.220 --> 00:14:58.270 get them to pay for the processing fees through an operating account. 00:14:58.270 --> 00:15:00.950 But Gravity Legal and LawPay just do that. 00:15:01.736 --> 00:15:04.166 And I've heard attorneys using QuickBooks with some success, 00:15:04.166 --> 00:15:06.836 who are using the subscription model and need trust accounting. 00:15:07.446 --> 00:15:11.076 For scheduling, you control your calendar instead of it controlling 00:15:11.076 --> 00:15:15.126 you, which means you're automating scheduling of all different kinds. 00:15:15.170 --> 00:15:18.480 Intake, consultations with other attorneys that know your schedule, 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.880 going back to the last presentation, with your team members and more. 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:23.200 Put everything in your calendar. 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:24.130 It's time to start. 00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:25.340 You're already here at TECHSHOW. 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:28.630 It's time to just embrace Calendly links, Acuity links, all that stuff, 00:15:29.102 --> 00:15:30.572 including for inside your own team. 00:15:31.232 --> 00:15:34.332 Using automations and setting up automations takes time. 00:15:34.812 --> 00:15:36.953 Even if you're hiring somebody to do it for you, you're gonna have 00:15:36.958 --> 00:15:39.942 to meet with them to figure out how much buffer time that you want 00:15:39.942 --> 00:15:41.082 when setting up your automations. 00:15:41.142 --> 00:15:45.502 I use Calendly, and I make it so I have 15 minutes in between 00:15:45.502 --> 00:15:46.612 every single scheduled call. 00:15:47.002 --> 00:15:50.302 So as soon as somebody schedules a call with me, nobody could book a meeting 00:15:50.302 --> 00:15:51.862 that's within 15 minutes on either side. 00:15:52.455 --> 00:15:55.570 I also, and this is something I highly recommend, unless you're in the business 00:15:55.570 --> 00:15:58.640 of putting out fires, but really when you're a subscription attorney, you're 00:15:58.640 --> 00:16:01.730 in the problem avoidance business, not in the problem solving business. 00:16:02.670 --> 00:16:06.530 It's a different philosophical mindset and you need to engage in some growth mindset 00:16:06.530 --> 00:16:07.750 in order to start thinking that way. 00:16:07.750 --> 00:16:11.400 But, I don't let anyone schedule any time with me within 24 hours. 00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:14.620 What that allows me to do is at the end of every day, I have time 00:16:14.620 --> 00:16:17.860 blocked, time blocking can be at least a 30 minute presentation. 00:16:18.670 --> 00:16:22.186 I have time blocked when I'm done putting my kid to bed and spending time with my 00:16:22.186 --> 00:16:27.796 wife, I go to my computer and I look at my master list of all the items that I 00:16:27.796 --> 00:16:31.936 have to do daily, weekly, monthly, or new client issues that have come in and 00:16:31.936 --> 00:16:33.556 they're all prioritized accordingly. 00:16:33.796 --> 00:16:36.196 I'm actually looking for a technology solution to automate some of this. 00:16:36.523 --> 00:16:39.483 And I go in and that's at 8:30 every night for me. 00:16:40.233 --> 00:16:42.163 And so I make it starting at 8:30. 00:16:42.183 --> 00:16:45.693 Nobody could book with me the next day, so I know everything 00:16:45.693 --> 00:16:46.533 I'm gonna do the next day. 00:16:46.803 --> 00:16:47.823 And things still come up. 00:16:48.033 --> 00:16:50.763 You know, there are some changes and some meetings get canceled, 00:16:50.763 --> 00:16:53.553 which frees up time or some other issues arise like I'm not perfect. 00:16:53.913 --> 00:16:55.593 Especially as a true solo, right? 00:16:55.593 --> 00:16:58.173 So find an accountability partner if you're gonna do this. 00:16:58.173 --> 00:17:00.633 But this is really important when you're no longer billing by your time. 00:17:00.633 --> 00:17:02.823 Just because you're not billing by your time, I'm in the camp 00:17:02.823 --> 00:17:05.486 of, you don't need to track your time, but you need to control your 00:17:05.486 --> 00:17:07.136 time and this is how you do it. 00:17:07.256 --> 00:17:07.916 Time blocking. 00:17:08.776 --> 00:17:10.486 A lot of technology does that stuff for you, right? 00:17:10.486 --> 00:17:11.266 So here we go. 00:17:11.476 --> 00:17:15.076 Calendly, HubSpot, Acuity, Google Appointments. 00:17:15.196 --> 00:17:17.626 Google Appointments is pretty cool if you're not a Calendly 00:17:17.626 --> 00:17:19.846 user and you only have one email. 00:17:19.876 --> 00:17:23.836 I have several, so I need Calendly cuz I could integrate my personal, my business 00:17:23.836 --> 00:17:25.636 one, and then my non-legal work that I do. 00:17:26.364 --> 00:17:28.164 Microsoft Bookings is a version of this. 00:17:29.149 --> 00:17:29.579 There's more. 00:17:30.639 --> 00:17:31.719 I'm a big fan of newsletters. 00:17:32.109 --> 00:17:34.779 Actually, I mentor a lot of law students, and I've recently been telling them 00:17:34.784 --> 00:17:39.069 the way that they could distinguish themselves is by showing that they could 00:17:39.069 --> 00:17:42.279 build a book, even if it's not a book of business, they could build a newsletter 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:45.219 that they get people subscribing to as they become thought leaders on a topic. 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:46.279 I'm a big fan of this. 00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:51.109 And it could be the freemium version of your subscription is your newsletter. 00:17:51.109 --> 00:17:54.229 This is actually heavily underoptimized with current law firms. 00:17:54.409 --> 00:17:55.669 I'm sure on some law firm websites. 00:17:55.669 --> 00:18:00.009 You see, "subscribe to our newsletter" and you might get like three a year. 00:18:00.469 --> 00:18:02.179 This has to be part of your strategy. 00:18:02.844 --> 00:18:07.234 And you could have your freemium tier to non-subscribers, then different 00:18:07.239 --> 00:18:09.159 periodic subscriber-only benefits. 00:18:09.349 --> 00:18:11.714 In the same way that there are paid newsletters and that's what they do. 00:18:11.714 --> 00:18:14.834 There's value in just niching down and doing one thing, but to the extent 00:18:14.834 --> 00:18:19.274 you could outsource this kind of thing or use ChatGPT or its successors or 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:23.234 other competitors, this would be a good place for something like that. 00:18:23.506 --> 00:18:25.906 And then it's an opportunity to remind existing subscribers about 00:18:25.906 --> 00:18:28.306 other services because one of the benefits of the subscription 00:18:28.306 --> 00:18:29.716 model is they're bought into you. 00:18:30.736 --> 00:18:31.546 They're already paying you. 00:18:32.356 --> 00:18:36.436 So just make sure they know that they can continue to use you and you have 00:18:36.436 --> 00:18:40.336 other services that you offer because it's easier to upsell than it is to 00:18:40.336 --> 00:18:42.126 acquire new customers or new clients. 00:18:42.947 --> 00:18:44.087 Here's a bunch of newsletter tech. 00:18:44.087 --> 00:18:47.397 Beehiiv, Sendinblue, Substack, Mailchimp, HubSpot, ConstantContact. 00:18:47.467 --> 00:18:49.027 They're built in with a lot of CRM tools. 00:18:49.027 --> 00:18:52.507 Even some legal tech client portals have built in newsletter software. 00:18:52.507 --> 00:18:53.547 So, it's all over. 00:18:53.607 --> 00:18:54.622 I've done a lot of research. 00:18:54.769 --> 00:18:57.844 I really like Beehiiv and I'm gonna be launching a newsletter through Beehive 00:18:57.844 --> 00:18:59.567 soon, that has nothing to do with this. 00:19:00.127 --> 00:19:02.001 CRM was briefly mentioned in the last talk. 00:19:02.001 --> 00:19:04.561 This is where you keep prospective client contact information, but also 00:19:04.566 --> 00:19:07.771 current client contact information, their business, their personal information. 00:19:08.227 --> 00:19:10.577 It records all the data on those communications. 00:19:10.677 --> 00:19:13.277 If it's well integrated with your client portal software, this is your 00:19:13.277 --> 00:19:14.567 practice management software, right? 00:19:14.567 --> 00:19:15.247 This should be in there. 00:19:15.577 --> 00:19:16.297 And it integrates. 00:19:16.617 --> 00:19:18.387 I'm a big fan of trying to do things differently. 00:19:18.447 --> 00:19:19.147 If you could tell. 00:19:19.707 --> 00:19:23.187 Instead of in your CRM, sending letters for Thanksgiving, for 00:19:23.187 --> 00:19:24.197 New Year's, for all that stuff. 00:19:24.837 --> 00:19:27.067 You should have your anniversary date with your client. 00:19:28.357 --> 00:19:31.447 Happy anniversary to when we first started working together. 00:19:31.657 --> 00:19:33.187 When I first started to serve you, right? 00:19:33.187 --> 00:19:34.057 So get creative. 00:19:34.724 --> 00:19:36.454 And it's easier to track that with a CRM. 00:19:36.824 --> 00:19:38.804 You could use Excel, you could use Google Sheets. 00:19:38.854 --> 00:19:39.814 It's a good starting point. 00:19:40.204 --> 00:19:40.924 It's not ideal. 00:19:41.217 --> 00:19:44.764 But what you can do with a lot of these CRM tools is you could import these. 00:19:45.144 --> 00:19:49.377 SuiteDash, the software I use right now has one built in that's pretty good. 00:19:49.527 --> 00:19:51.262 HubSpot, though it is really expensive. 00:19:51.589 --> 00:19:53.539 ClioGrow is an example of this. 00:19:53.789 --> 00:19:54.559 Lawmatics. 00:19:55.229 --> 00:19:56.999 There's so many. 00:19:57.397 --> 00:20:00.737 For your internet phone, this makes it accessible for calls and texts 00:20:00.737 --> 00:20:02.167 from a web browser or a desktop app. 00:20:02.513 --> 00:20:05.033 And like the last presentation, I don't have a desk phone. 00:20:05.713 --> 00:20:08.853 I have an app on my phone, which is really convenient, although I don't 00:20:08.853 --> 00:20:12.547 really use it cuz I have everyone schedule encrypted calls with me on Zoom. 00:20:12.763 --> 00:20:15.697 But you do have a record of everything, and if you're just using your personal 00:20:15.702 --> 00:20:16.757 cell phone, you're doing it wrong. 00:20:17.237 --> 00:20:18.827 No client should have your personal cell phone. 00:20:19.187 --> 00:20:24.452 It's like $15 a month, with the taxes and stuff to get a virtual phone. 00:20:24.942 --> 00:20:27.252 And when you're paying for it and you're not just using free Google 00:20:27.252 --> 00:20:30.137 Voice for example, there are some advanced features that come in handy. 00:20:30.447 --> 00:20:31.032 Google Voice. 00:20:31.032 --> 00:20:31.602 That's what I use. 00:20:31.602 --> 00:20:33.462 Cause I'm all in on Google Workspace. 00:20:33.932 --> 00:20:37.252 Any legal tech founders back there that don't integrate with Google Docs, 00:20:37.262 --> 00:20:38.992 I'm not going to use your software. 00:20:39.689 --> 00:20:41.599 OpenPhone is another really good example. 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.079 Their prices are competitive with Google Voice, and if you're 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:47.749 not integrated with Google, that could be a good solution for you. 00:20:48.689 --> 00:20:50.399 Zoom offers this feature now. 00:20:50.489 --> 00:20:53.119 Zoom is actually starting to try to compete with Google Workspace. 00:20:53.149 --> 00:20:55.069 They're offering all kinds of cool new features. 00:20:55.074 --> 00:20:58.159 So if you're already subscribing to Zoom, it might be worthwhile to look 00:20:58.159 --> 00:20:59.799 into what they're doing for VoIP. 00:21:00.168 --> 00:21:02.418 GoToConnect, RingCentral. 00:21:02.448 --> 00:21:03.078 There's a lot. 00:21:03.678 --> 00:21:04.398 Do your research. 00:21:04.428 --> 00:21:07.008 Obviously, none, none of these are an endorsement of any of 00:21:07.008 --> 00:21:08.608 these pieces of technology. 00:21:08.608 --> 00:21:09.598 Do your research. 00:21:10.178 --> 00:21:11.618 You can meet with clients anywhere. 00:21:11.798 --> 00:21:12.608 Clients expect it. 00:21:12.608 --> 00:21:14.898 I feel like this group kind of appreciates these already. 00:21:14.978 --> 00:21:17.848 Paid plans have access to advanced features without time limitations. 00:21:17.848 --> 00:21:18.388 Encryption. 00:21:18.448 --> 00:21:18.928 Encryption. 00:21:18.958 --> 00:21:20.068 This is huge. 00:21:20.218 --> 00:21:23.518 This goes back to why I only message my clients through a secure client 00:21:23.518 --> 00:21:25.258 portal with two-factor authentication. 00:21:25.258 --> 00:21:27.838 I'm trying to be ethical and preserve attorney-client privilege. 00:21:28.456 --> 00:21:30.365 I'm not worried about my phones being tapped, but that 00:21:30.365 --> 00:21:31.565 is something that can happen. 00:21:31.805 --> 00:21:33.515 With encrypted Zoom calls it's a lot harder. 00:21:33.515 --> 00:21:36.575 I actually push all my clients toward encrypted Zoom calls, even 00:21:36.580 --> 00:21:37.750 if they just keep the video off. 00:21:38.090 --> 00:21:39.330 Secured document sharing. 00:21:40.170 --> 00:21:42.030 Emailing documents is not secure. 00:21:42.420 --> 00:21:43.050 Don't do it. 00:21:43.950 --> 00:21:46.140 Probably an ethics violation, though I know that we haven't 00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:47.100 really seen those yet. 00:21:48.780 --> 00:21:50.730 Nothing I say is actual ethical advice. 00:21:50.930 --> 00:21:52.380 It's all for educational purposes only. 00:21:52.840 --> 00:21:54.940 There are plugins and solutions to make them secure. 00:21:54.970 --> 00:21:58.610 I used to use some plugin for Microsoft Outlook that required you 00:21:58.615 --> 00:22:02.900 send a password and do these other things, but it also looks a lot like 00:22:03.140 --> 00:22:04.930 someone's trying to engage in phishing. 00:22:05.350 --> 00:22:07.935 So I'm not a fan of them, and it creates friction. 00:22:08.172 --> 00:22:12.592 Cloud document sharing has less friction, but it has to be protected by a sign 00:22:12.597 --> 00:22:13.912 in with two-factor authentication. 00:22:14.872 --> 00:22:15.712 All this is necessary. 00:22:15.712 --> 00:22:17.342 I know you're like, okay, I get it, TECHNOLOGY! 00:22:17.342 --> 00:22:20.487 But if you're not using technology and being super efficient and ethical at 00:22:20.717 --> 00:22:24.057 the same time, you cannot be successful with having a subscription model. 00:22:24.057 --> 00:22:25.857 This is why I'm spending the time on technology. 00:22:26.517 --> 00:22:28.857 This is the only way documents should be shared in my opinion. 00:22:29.542 --> 00:22:32.242 So, Google Docs via paid Google Workspace account. 00:22:32.242 --> 00:22:35.392 Do not use a personal Gmail account and share docs on Google Drive. 00:22:36.542 --> 00:22:39.582 Read the terms of service or at least tell ChatGPT to explain them to you 00:22:39.587 --> 00:22:41.887 or summarize them to you because they're crawling everything that's 00:22:41.907 --> 00:22:43.957 shared through email and Google Drive. 00:22:43.987 --> 00:22:46.077 If you're using just a free Gmail account. 00:22:46.254 --> 00:22:49.264 At anytime I get an email from a lawyer that is using Gmail. 00:22:49.564 --> 00:22:51.513 I tell them it's only $6 a month. 00:22:52.264 --> 00:22:53.524 $6 a month. 00:22:53.614 --> 00:22:56.284 You've been practicing law for 25 years, okay? 00:22:57.394 --> 00:23:00.994 I think you could afford $6 a month, and it's gonna look way more professional. 00:23:01.504 --> 00:23:02.314 I will do it for you. 00:23:02.314 --> 00:23:03.664 I will set it up for you. 00:23:03.964 --> 00:23:05.344 It will take me two minutes. 00:23:07.544 --> 00:23:11.134 Sharepoint, OneDrive, a little clunky, but you know, it works. 00:23:11.338 --> 00:23:12.448 Dropbox, Box. 00:23:13.478 --> 00:23:14.698 A lot of client portals offer it. 00:23:14.698 --> 00:23:15.448 SuiteDash offers it. 00:23:16.251 --> 00:23:17.441 Fidu I'm pretty sure offers it. 00:23:18.058 --> 00:23:20.008 PDFs and e-signatures, really important, right? 00:23:20.158 --> 00:23:22.618 You don't wanna be going in person and getting wet signatures unless 00:23:22.623 --> 00:23:25.768 you absolutely have to because your jurisdiction and your practice 00:23:25.773 --> 00:23:28.108 area is behind the times, right? 00:23:28.578 --> 00:23:30.268 Efficiency really, really matters. 00:23:30.273 --> 00:23:32.578 You have to be able to edit PDFs quickly. 00:23:32.578 --> 00:23:37.308 E-signature, super easy, super fast, and only one party needs 00:23:37.313 --> 00:23:39.158 to have it for the paid software. 00:23:39.575 --> 00:23:44.455 A lot of client portals now do this though Adobe and DocuSign are kind of the best. 00:23:45.295 --> 00:23:49.460 I like Adobe Acrobat Pro because it's both PDF editor and an e-signature tool. 00:23:49.767 --> 00:23:52.817 The $20 a month I'm paying is well worth it, and I use it all the time. 00:23:53.749 --> 00:23:55.819 Document automation is the number one thing. 00:23:56.402 --> 00:23:58.322 This is where you're gonna save the most amount of time. 00:23:58.382 --> 00:24:00.212 I mean that and intake and onboarding, right? 00:24:00.692 --> 00:24:02.732 But this, especially for the client work. 00:24:03.062 --> 00:24:05.642 There's no reason to ever draft documents from scratch again. 00:24:05.702 --> 00:24:06.182 Ever. 00:24:06.649 --> 00:24:10.204 Gavel is launching a marketplace where attorneys can sell to each 00:24:10.204 --> 00:24:12.634 other their pre-made automated forms. 00:24:12.694 --> 00:24:13.504 I cannot wait. 00:24:13.654 --> 00:24:14.824 I think it's soft launched. 00:24:15.217 --> 00:24:16.747 I cannot wait until that's launched. 00:24:17.193 --> 00:24:18.843 For the profession, for the sake of the profession. 00:24:18.903 --> 00:24:19.443 And myself. 00:24:19.493 --> 00:24:22.193 Intake questionnaires, fact gathering, contracts, pleadings. 00:24:22.193 --> 00:24:24.033 Everything, everything, everything, everything 00:24:24.173 --> 00:24:25.813 can be automated with document automation. 00:24:26.143 --> 00:24:29.203 There's bring your own documents versus document databases. 00:24:29.603 --> 00:24:31.613 What I'm currently using though, I am gonna be switching to 00:24:31.613 --> 00:24:34.193 Gavel soon, is called Formulaw. 00:24:34.193 --> 00:24:36.463 It's through the Illinois Institute of Continuing Legal Education. 00:24:36.463 --> 00:24:37.213 And they are both. 00:24:38.233 --> 00:24:40.298 They have document database and automation. 00:24:40.824 --> 00:24:42.654 But they lack some of the other fun features. 00:24:42.684 --> 00:24:43.344 Oh yeah, there's a question. 00:24:43.344 --> 00:24:43.584 Go ahead. 00:24:43.854 --> 00:24:44.414 Sorry. 00:24:44.424 --> 00:24:46.764 Can I ask a question that is off topic a little bit? 00:24:46.764 --> 00:24:47.056 Sure. 00:24:47.282 --> 00:24:50.209 So, I don't know what's I, what state are you in? 00:24:50.448 --> 00:24:52.128 I'm in Illinois and I practice state law. 00:24:52.278 --> 00:24:52.518 Okay. 00:24:52.518 --> 00:24:57.888 And, and do, does your state accept earned upon receipt and is that how you treat the 00:24:57.888 --> 00:25:01.728 payments, the subscription payments from your clients as earned upon receipt that 00:25:01.958 --> 00:25:04.848 goes directly into your operating account? 00:25:05.238 --> 00:25:07.218 Yes, for my subscriptions I do. 00:25:07.458 --> 00:25:08.445 Can you repeat the question? 00:25:08.478 --> 00:25:08.688 Oh, yeah. 00:25:08.688 --> 00:25:12.678 So for everyone else, the question was about earned fees and if 00:25:12.683 --> 00:25:16.248 Illinois, if Illinois allows me to, for my subscriptions to have 00:25:16.248 --> 00:25:18.768 it be an earned fee that goes directly into my operating account. 00:25:19.011 --> 00:25:22.121 Well, it depends what's in your engagement agreement, and what is 00:25:22.501 --> 00:25:23.561 actually ethical in your state? 00:25:23.571 --> 00:25:25.701 You're gonna have to do the research for your jurisdiction. 00:25:25.701 --> 00:25:29.246 In Illinois, you're allowed to have something distinguished as an earned 00:25:29.246 --> 00:25:32.366 fee, but we're gonna get into the ethics at the very end of the presentation. 00:25:32.576 --> 00:25:34.976 So you have to still comply with the ethics, right? 00:25:35.196 --> 00:25:37.176 And how it's defined as an earrned fee and what it is. 00:25:37.326 --> 00:25:39.246 It has to be a reasonable amount and all that, right? 00:25:39.246 --> 00:25:42.366 So my subscriptions start at $20 a month, and in exchange for 00:25:42.366 --> 00:25:44.816 that, they get access to different things, which I'll talk about. 00:25:45.386 --> 00:25:47.696 And so they're getting the value for that. 00:25:48.003 --> 00:25:50.628 Turnkey automations versus customizable automations. 00:25:50.971 --> 00:25:55.156 I'm more in favor of customizing your automations, but it does take time. 00:25:55.246 --> 00:25:57.611 There are consultants and some of the companies that offer these 00:25:57.611 --> 00:25:59.081 services also help you with that. 00:25:59.291 --> 00:26:02.321 The software that I'm using right now, Formulaw, you cannot customize, 00:26:02.321 --> 00:26:04.511 which I'm not a huge fan of, but it's a document database and 00:26:04.511 --> 00:26:06.401 automation, and it's $28 a month. 00:26:06.406 --> 00:26:07.571 So it was hard to complain about. 00:26:08.111 --> 00:26:11.441 This is how you build a marketplace that competes with LegalZoom and software 00:26:11.441 --> 00:26:13.216 like Gavel will help you do that. 00:26:13.666 --> 00:26:18.116 Speaking of Gavel, formerly Documate, Legal Karma does it, although they 00:26:18.116 --> 00:26:20.966 are starting to look more outside of the legal profession, PatternBuilder, 00:26:21.206 --> 00:26:24.940 formerly, AfterPattern, but NetDocs acquired it and now you have to be a 00:26:24.940 --> 00:26:28.810 NetDocs user in order to get access to it, which is really disappointing. 00:26:28.810 --> 00:26:32.321 But with Documate's recent brand change and some of the new offerings, they're 00:26:32.631 --> 00:26:35.891 kind of filling that gap for the rest of the market that AfterPattern used to fill. 00:26:36.140 --> 00:26:38.570 Formulaw, which is what I am currently using, but soon 00:26:38.570 --> 00:26:39.530 I'll be switching to Gavel. 00:26:40.050 --> 00:26:41.010 SixFifty does it. 00:26:41.055 --> 00:26:43.235 They are a sponsor of my podcast, Law Subscribed. 00:26:43.558 --> 00:26:47.525 SpeedLegal does document automation in the analysis sense. 00:26:47.555 --> 00:26:49.535 There are more and more of these AI tools coming out that will 00:26:49.535 --> 00:26:51.820 automate analyzing documents for you. 00:26:52.792 --> 00:26:54.617 I've beta tested so many of these. 00:26:54.892 --> 00:26:58.464 I kind of like SpeedLegal the most, but they're all still so far away from 00:26:58.934 --> 00:27:00.294 actually identifying all the red flags. 00:27:00.294 --> 00:27:02.964 So you can't just rely on this technology yet, but it is getting better. 00:27:03.814 --> 00:27:09.142 On the other hand, LegalOn is in beta, and they just focus the AI on NDAs and because 00:27:09.142 --> 00:27:11.932 they're only focusing on one kind of contract, they're doing it a lot better. 00:27:12.002 --> 00:27:16.107 But they're in early beta right now, and generative AI like LawDroid has a product 00:27:16.507 --> 00:27:18.097 in beta for document automation stuff. 00:27:18.844 --> 00:27:20.584 This should be in the materials and you could always email 00:27:20.584 --> 00:27:21.514 me and I'll send you stuff. 00:27:21.544 --> 00:27:23.014 I did make a couple of changes. 00:27:23.244 --> 00:27:26.004 This used to just say Documate, not Gavel when I first made this. 00:27:26.438 --> 00:27:27.668 A knowledge base, super important. 00:27:27.673 --> 00:27:29.768 Fidu, this is part of what they offer too. 00:27:29.868 --> 00:27:31.608 Going back to my subscription. 00:27:31.728 --> 00:27:34.728 Even at $20 a month, they're getting access to my knowledge base. 00:27:34.733 --> 00:27:38.543 It's actual questions asked by clients where I've removed identifying 00:27:38.548 --> 00:27:41.943 information, but it's actual legal advice in the knowledge base. 00:27:41.943 --> 00:27:45.932 And I have been playing around with using ChatGPT to take on the 00:27:45.932 --> 00:27:49.148 role of my client avatars, right? 00:27:49.328 --> 00:27:55.713 So you are a freelancer in their twenties who is a graphic designer, and you're 00:27:55.713 --> 00:27:59.753 in the Chicagoland area, and what are the questions you have about running 00:27:59.753 --> 00:28:01.253 your business from a legal perspective. 00:28:01.733 --> 00:28:04.883 Then if I'm not actually getting good questions, I'm trying to use ChatGPT to 00:28:04.883 --> 00:28:08.513 come up with them for me, and then that way I could answer them and so I could 00:28:08.513 --> 00:28:10.103 add to the value of my knowledge base. 00:28:10.497 --> 00:28:15.707 Do you require a new engagement letter each time you start a new project? 00:28:15.707 --> 00:28:17.267 Even if they're already a subscriber? 00:28:18.080 --> 00:28:20.590 The way that I've designed my engagement agreement, it accounts for that. 00:28:21.510 --> 00:28:23.095 And my engagement agreement is on my website. 00:28:23.675 --> 00:28:26.445 Sometimes I do addendums to that engagement agreement 00:28:26.445 --> 00:28:27.765 depending on the situation. 00:28:28.135 --> 00:28:31.025 But I draft those pretty quickly and take care of it. 00:28:31.745 --> 00:28:36.855 How do you account for issues where, like if there's a concern about the 00:28:37.085 --> 00:28:40.745 scope of representation making sure clients are aware exactly what you're 00:28:40.995 --> 00:28:42.275 doing before them at any one time? 00:28:43.062 --> 00:28:46.662 The way I've designed my own practice is completely unbundled legal services. 00:28:46.692 --> 00:28:50.742 And then my subscription packages are like rebundling, some of those unbundled 00:28:50.742 --> 00:28:55.152 services, and it's very explicit as to what they're getting, which is exactly 00:28:55.157 --> 00:28:56.682 what's stated on my website as well. 00:28:57.132 --> 00:28:58.302 And like the marketing material. 00:28:58.872 --> 00:29:01.182 The marketing material and my engagement agreement go hand in hand. 00:29:01.394 --> 00:29:03.130 Are you gonna talk about this more during this presentation? 00:29:03.162 --> 00:29:03.702 Oh, yeah, yeah. 00:29:03.702 --> 00:29:04.482 We're, we're getting there. 00:29:04.692 --> 00:29:05.592 How much time do I have? 00:29:06.342 --> 00:29:06.672 Okay. 00:29:06.672 --> 00:29:08.022 I'm gonna fly through some of this stuff. 00:29:08.022 --> 00:29:11.022 Removing, identifying information, reduce the need to reinvent the wheel. 00:29:11.442 --> 00:29:14.152 Especially if you're a solo or general practitioner like me. 00:29:14.212 --> 00:29:17.572 This is not just a knowledge base for your clients, it's a knowledge base for you. 00:29:18.154 --> 00:29:22.294 Notion, Zoho Desk, Zendesk, WordPress plugins, Google Docs via Workspace. 00:29:22.294 --> 00:29:22.894 Not ideal. 00:29:22.894 --> 00:29:24.694 Same with SharePoint, but they can work. 00:29:25.064 --> 00:29:28.209 Client portals like Fidu can help you with this too. 00:29:28.532 --> 00:29:30.042 Everything should be integrated. 00:29:30.142 --> 00:29:33.232 Sometimes the technology doesn't naturally talk to each other, but there's 00:29:33.232 --> 00:29:36.172 a lot of tools that help you do that, to streamline different processes. 00:29:36.392 --> 00:29:39.202 I interviewed an attorney on my podcast last week. 00:29:39.252 --> 00:29:41.952 His episode won't air until June, but he said he had 00:29:41.952 --> 00:29:44.142 seriously 20,000 zaps in Zapier. 00:29:44.612 --> 00:29:45.282 Oh my God. 00:29:45.283 --> 00:29:45.523 Yeah. 00:29:45.780 --> 00:29:48.009 You have to maintain the process and you have to evolve it, 00:29:48.009 --> 00:29:49.549 but it's absolutely worth it. 00:29:49.604 --> 00:29:51.194 A lot of apps already integrate with each other. 00:29:51.224 --> 00:29:54.094 Calendly seems to integrate with everything these days, which is great. 00:29:54.556 --> 00:29:57.186 Zapier or Make formerly Integomat, If This Then That, HubSpot. 00:29:57.526 --> 00:30:00.026 Stripe integrates with a lot of things, and hopefully 00:30:00.046 --> 00:30:01.216 client portal features do too. 00:30:02.126 --> 00:30:03.086 Final tech tips. 00:30:03.516 --> 00:30:05.106 Tools with unlimited usage are great. 00:30:05.136 --> 00:30:06.846 Like Adobe Pro and Calendly. 00:30:07.306 --> 00:30:10.721 Subscriptions are about scale, so the more clients you sign up makes these 00:30:10.726 --> 00:30:12.551 tools more than pay for themselves. 00:30:12.606 --> 00:30:16.806 All of the tech solutions that I have right now are costing me $120 a month. 00:30:17.376 --> 00:30:20.736 I don't need many clients to pay for that, and I'm able to serve all 00:30:20.736 --> 00:30:23.646 of that equally the same way in a lot of ways because of all that. 00:30:24.426 --> 00:30:27.156 Although my tech spend is about to go up a little bit. 00:30:27.736 --> 00:30:30.646 It's easier to spend on technology when you know how many subscribers pay for your 00:30:30.676 --> 00:30:32.386 subscriptions used to power your practice. 00:30:33.273 --> 00:30:36.723 The same is applicable to monthly spend, like, you have monthly insurance 00:30:36.723 --> 00:30:39.583 costs if you pay for it monthly, your rent, if you have physical 00:30:39.583 --> 00:30:40.993 office space, salaries, et cetera. 00:30:40.998 --> 00:30:43.333 You're already paying things every single month. 00:30:43.543 --> 00:30:46.563 Now it's easier for you to manage your business financially when you 00:30:46.563 --> 00:30:49.183 know what your monthly recurring revenue is versus your monthly spend. 00:30:49.573 --> 00:30:51.103 And you do it with technology. 00:30:52.183 --> 00:30:54.043 You know, there's LawNext and all these different 00:30:54.103 --> 00:30:55.813 marketplaces to do more research. 00:30:56.113 --> 00:30:57.583 So how do you adapt the subscription model? 00:30:57.583 --> 00:30:58.573 Here are the ways you do it. 00:30:58.783 --> 00:31:02.203 Pure subscriptions, subscriptions and flat fees, subscription add-ons, 00:31:02.653 --> 00:31:04.123 it depends on your practice area. 00:31:04.128 --> 00:31:06.643 You know, what you're doing with transactional versus litigation. 00:31:06.643 --> 00:31:09.833 I'm about to do a deep dive on all these, and then how to price it. 00:31:10.943 --> 00:31:13.193 The pure subscription model, this is where they pay you something and 00:31:13.193 --> 00:31:17.163 they get something in exchange, and it is scoped and defined as best you 00:31:17.163 --> 00:31:18.693 can in your engagement agreement. 00:31:19.218 --> 00:31:20.598 Started with trademarks, right? 00:31:20.948 --> 00:31:22.158 What, what could that look like? 00:31:22.158 --> 00:31:24.468 That could look something like unlimited cease and desist letters. 00:31:24.708 --> 00:31:27.978 Unlimited attorney-client communications, which is usually scheduled communications. 00:31:27.978 --> 00:31:31.158 They can't call you whenever they want, but you limit your calendar 00:31:31.158 --> 00:31:33.828 availability and they could schedule time to talk with you. 00:31:34.368 --> 00:31:36.918 I do month to month subscriptions because of my client abuses, my 00:31:36.923 --> 00:31:41.398 services and schedules ten, 15-minute calls in a row, I'm gonna drop 'em. 00:31:42.748 --> 00:31:43.498 Trademark searches. 00:31:43.498 --> 00:31:44.278 Like this is just an example. 00:31:44.278 --> 00:31:46.108 This is not, I don't think this is a real example, right? 00:31:46.108 --> 00:31:47.368 But I'm just giving you an example. 00:31:48.038 --> 00:31:50.248 Fractional outside or in-house counsel, right? 00:31:50.253 --> 00:31:52.978 I've heard this as general counsel as a service. 00:31:53.038 --> 00:31:53.908 This is actually what I do. 00:31:54.598 --> 00:31:57.268 I have pure subscriptions using that model. 00:31:58.218 --> 00:32:00.578 Could cover anything that an in-house attorney would cover, right? 00:32:00.578 --> 00:32:04.568 But instead of them paying a full-time employee, a six-figure salary with 00:32:04.568 --> 00:32:09.833 benefits, they could pay me $1,500, $5,000 or $10,000 a month, and 00:32:10.133 --> 00:32:12.383 listed on my website is what they get in exchange for that amount. 00:32:12.383 --> 00:32:14.243 I also do custom packages. 00:32:14.273 --> 00:32:18.023 If a client's needs are somewhere in between, I'm happy to do that, but I don't 00:32:18.023 --> 00:32:19.343 have automation set up for all those. 00:32:19.343 --> 00:32:21.858 But if I get enough demand, then I will set up an automation for that. 00:32:22.833 --> 00:32:26.013 Document marketplace with optional automations and legal advice. 00:32:26.013 --> 00:32:26.223 Right. 00:32:26.223 --> 00:32:29.343 So you can sell documents on your website. 00:32:29.353 --> 00:32:32.293 There are at least a couple of attorneys doing this in the wedding space. 00:32:32.813 --> 00:32:35.853 They're selling documents on their website for wedding vendors 00:32:35.853 --> 00:32:37.203 to use to run their business. 00:32:37.413 --> 00:32:41.733 But hey, if you actually wanted to hire me to give you legal advice about 00:32:41.733 --> 00:32:43.173 that document, you could also do that. 00:32:43.593 --> 00:32:46.053 What they're not doing is they're just doing flat fee. 00:32:46.083 --> 00:32:47.943 They're saying buy these for a flat fee. 00:32:48.363 --> 00:32:51.813 What they should be doing is charging a subscription for access to all the 00:32:51.813 --> 00:32:56.493 documents, because they do get updated as laws change and the lawyer learns 00:32:56.493 --> 00:32:58.233 new things and updates those documents. 00:32:58.293 --> 00:32:58.623 Yeah. 00:32:59.193 --> 00:33:02.583 So I'm doing this, I do outside GC too, and we're about to kind of 00:33:02.588 --> 00:33:04.173 launch what you're talking about. 00:33:04.593 --> 00:33:06.963 My question is, are you severing it from your firm? 00:33:07.233 --> 00:33:09.003 So if I let you do the documents, 00:33:09.015 --> 00:33:09.513 It depends. 00:33:09.513 --> 00:33:10.073 It depends. 00:33:10.263 --> 00:33:10.293 Okay. 00:33:10.383 --> 00:33:12.063 Should, should this be a separate business? 00:33:12.063 --> 00:33:13.203 Is the question essentially? 00:33:13.383 --> 00:33:15.303 And sometimes yes, and sometimes no. 00:33:15.723 --> 00:33:18.633 Just gotta figure out what works for you and also look at your local rules. 00:33:19.568 --> 00:33:21.958 You know, HelloDivorce is kind of an example of this too, right? 00:33:22.448 --> 00:33:24.158 HelloPrenup Is another one. 00:33:24.188 --> 00:33:25.718 There, there's more and more of these cropping up. 00:33:26.528 --> 00:33:29.558 I spoke to an attorney at TECHSHOW who wants to do this for condo associations. 00:33:30.184 --> 00:33:31.314 Riches in the niches, right? 00:33:32.014 --> 00:33:33.364 Legal adjacent services. 00:33:33.394 --> 00:33:37.608 So if I'm a criminal defense attorney, I can't maybe charge a subscription. 00:33:37.608 --> 00:33:39.958 Maybe I can, but probably not. 00:33:40.408 --> 00:33:42.078 But then where can I monetize that? 00:33:42.078 --> 00:33:46.308 Well, you have legal knowledge that's really important, after you make sure that 00:33:46.308 --> 00:33:48.238 they get off and they're on probation. 00:33:48.238 --> 00:33:52.198 So maybe you have a course that you made that you have to make once or once 00:33:52.203 --> 00:33:56.758 in a while, if laws change that they subscribe to and it's a course that 00:33:56.938 --> 00:34:00.328 you sell to them and you're making some recurring revenue on past clients, right? 00:34:00.328 --> 00:34:03.268 And if you do a good job, they'll want to subscribe cuz you help get 00:34:03.268 --> 00:34:04.558 'em off and now they're on probation. 00:34:04.558 --> 00:34:05.848 Here's how you comply with probation. 00:34:06.758 --> 00:34:07.898 This is just one idea, right? 00:34:07.898 --> 00:34:10.678 There's so many, I'm doing this on my own, like, I don't know all 00:34:10.678 --> 00:34:11.938 the different ways to do this. 00:34:11.938 --> 00:34:14.188 That's why I have the podcast and I interview lawyers doing 00:34:14.188 --> 00:34:15.298 it all different kinds of ways. 00:34:15.811 --> 00:34:17.221 Subscription plus flat fee. 00:34:17.281 --> 00:34:18.781 I also do this model. 00:34:19.683 --> 00:34:23.023 This isn't in a slide, but I encourage law firms that are already offering 00:34:23.023 --> 00:34:28.376 flat fees is to continue to offer your flat fees, but figure out what the 00:34:28.376 --> 00:34:33.296 right number is to charge them a monthly amount, where then you give a percentage 00:34:33.296 --> 00:34:34.736 discount on all your other flat fee work. 00:34:34.926 --> 00:34:37.876 10%, 15%, you know, you have to figure out what the, what that number 00:34:37.876 --> 00:34:42.101 is that you think they'll pay in exchange for that future discount. 00:34:43.136 --> 00:34:45.596 That's a way to use the subscription and flat fee model. 00:34:45.896 --> 00:34:46.946 That's not how I use it. 00:34:47.506 --> 00:34:50.596 I only offer my flat fee services to subscribers and I already 00:34:50.596 --> 00:34:52.066 charge below market rates to do it. 00:34:52.771 --> 00:34:54.211 So things like corporate formation, right? 00:34:54.211 --> 00:34:55.051 Because it's one and done. 00:34:55.321 --> 00:34:57.271 A real estate transaction, it's one and done. 00:34:57.571 --> 00:34:59.251 Just general transactional work. 00:34:59.251 --> 00:35:02.281 Usually, you know, you help 'em negotiate the contract or you help 'em 00:35:02.281 --> 00:35:04.411 do the prenup and they're done, right? 00:35:04.416 --> 00:35:07.031 So when you're a general transactional attorney like me, 00:35:08.076 --> 00:35:12.796 you help 'em do the prenup, then they get married, they buy a home. 00:35:12.796 --> 00:35:14.386 I represent 'em on that transaction. 00:35:14.476 --> 00:35:16.096 They want to have an estate plan. 00:35:16.366 --> 00:35:18.796 If it's too complicated, I have to comply with my own legal ethics. 00:35:18.846 --> 00:35:21.996 I don't do too much estate planning work, but if they just need something 00:35:22.001 --> 00:35:23.556 simple, I can help 'em with that. 00:35:23.556 --> 00:35:24.486 Otherwise, I refer 'em out. 00:35:24.486 --> 00:35:27.516 Sometimes I could help them depending on what their needs are, and then 00:35:27.516 --> 00:35:30.366 they have something come up at work, I could advise them on an offer letter 00:35:30.456 --> 00:35:31.866 or a separation agreement, right? 00:35:32.016 --> 00:35:32.926 So they stay subscribed. 00:35:33.623 --> 00:35:36.643 You unbundle your services and you have flat fee add-ons. 00:35:36.973 --> 00:35:38.713 I also am a big fan of subscription add-ons. 00:35:38.773 --> 00:35:42.073 I actually unbundle negotiations for my subscriptions, and 00:35:42.073 --> 00:35:43.393 that's a subscription add-on. 00:35:44.003 --> 00:35:45.133 Landlords love that one. 00:35:45.243 --> 00:35:47.283 I now have a unique package for landlords. 00:35:48.153 --> 00:35:49.833 Sometimes they don't want you to do negotiations. 00:35:49.833 --> 00:35:52.533 Sometimes they wanna work with their tenants on their own. 00:35:52.623 --> 00:35:55.053 Freelancers love it too, because freelancers wanna develop 00:35:55.058 --> 00:35:56.438 relationships with their clients. 00:35:56.498 --> 00:35:58.298 So they don't want you negotiating for them. 00:35:58.898 --> 00:36:01.568 Plus they don't want their clients thinking that they're being paid too 00:36:01.568 --> 00:36:02.918 much so that they could hire a lawyer. 00:36:02.918 --> 00:36:03.398 Cause they don't know. 00:36:03.403 --> 00:36:05.888 I only, you know, cost $20 a month to get started. 00:36:06.295 --> 00:36:08.150 This is the only way it works for litigation. 00:36:09.140 --> 00:36:13.310 I don't think the subscription model can work for litigation on its own, 00:36:14.300 --> 00:36:18.830 but it can help solve and fill the gap of under or over-scoping issues. 00:36:19.236 --> 00:36:20.856 Especially in high volume cases. 00:36:20.861 --> 00:36:21.066 Right? 00:36:21.066 --> 00:36:21.906 Like insurance. 00:36:22.836 --> 00:36:26.442 Can you go deeper on that issue or if you have time? 00:36:26.456 --> 00:36:28.016 If I have time to the end, you could stick around. 00:36:28.016 --> 00:36:28.886 I do have a formula. 00:36:29.006 --> 00:36:29.036 Okay. 00:36:29.066 --> 00:36:29.546 For that? 00:36:29.606 --> 00:36:32.696 Yeah, for litigation, it's a problem I'm constantly trying to solve. 00:36:32.701 --> 00:36:35.791 Cause it's a question I get a lot, but for foreclosure prosecution, 00:36:35.796 --> 00:36:39.751 insurance defense and debt collection, the formula is super easy. 00:36:40.591 --> 00:36:41.161 It sort of depends. 00:36:41.161 --> 00:36:44.761 With criminal defense, I don't know, like maybe, maybe I'm not a criminal 00:36:44.881 --> 00:36:48.031 attorney, but I would love to talk to some and see if this would be ethical 00:36:48.031 --> 00:36:53.216 in your jurisdiction to do a flat fee to start, monthly amount throughout, 00:36:53.216 --> 00:36:57.756 that's less than the flat fee, and then a settlement fee, a mediation fee, or 00:36:57.756 --> 00:36:59.226 a success fee depending on results. 00:36:59.226 --> 00:37:02.046 There's a lot of different ways to structure this, but you can structure it. 00:37:02.406 --> 00:37:05.046 And like I take the access to justice approach, right? 00:37:05.051 --> 00:37:08.466 My fees are super low intentionally, I'm trying to serve the Latent Legal Market. 00:37:09.156 --> 00:37:13.186 You know, you could look at a litigation case and maybe you make on average 00:37:13.186 --> 00:37:16.636 you make maybe $10,000 or whatever it is from your, from your case. 00:37:16.636 --> 00:37:17.586 Let's say it's $10,000. 00:37:18.276 --> 00:37:21.216 Structure, a subscription and flat fee model for your litigation where you 00:37:21.216 --> 00:37:26.616 make $20,000, but your client knows exactly what they're gonna pay, and 00:37:26.616 --> 00:37:28.566 they'll be happy with that, I think. 00:37:29.406 --> 00:37:32.256 So there's still opportunity to make more money and not be billing your time. 00:37:34.696 --> 00:37:35.851 Keep it simple, right? 00:37:36.071 --> 00:37:37.511 So you don't wanna have a million options. 00:37:37.511 --> 00:37:40.421 I do put all my pricing on my website, but it's not a button that 00:37:40.771 --> 00:37:41.741 somebody could click on right away. 00:37:41.861 --> 00:37:45.001 I have a very intentional client journey on my website, but they can 00:37:45.021 --> 00:37:47.751 eventually see all of my prices, but I don't wanna overload 'em. 00:37:48.891 --> 00:37:50.241 No more than three offerings at a time. 00:37:50.241 --> 00:37:52.281 There's been a lot of psychology work done on this. 00:37:52.511 --> 00:37:55.261 I highly recommend the book Subscribed by Tien Tzuo. 00:37:55.431 --> 00:37:58.191 It's a great book on the subscription economy in general. 00:37:58.699 --> 00:38:00.979 Give options of different tiers or levels. 00:38:01.099 --> 00:38:03.799 The thing is, no more than three, but no less than two. 00:38:03.859 --> 00:38:04.579 It should be two or three. 00:38:04.579 --> 00:38:06.979 Cause if you give 'em one option, it's yes or no. 00:38:08.059 --> 00:38:09.769 So give 'em at least two, but no more than three. 00:38:10.481 --> 00:38:12.861 Obviously, I'm using it for my own subscription law firm. 00:38:12.861 --> 00:38:16.191 A low accessible price for the market you're trying to serve. 00:38:17.056 --> 00:38:17.926 What do they get for that price? 00:38:18.818 --> 00:38:22.643 They get access to schedule 15-minute calls with me, that's 00:38:22.643 --> 00:38:24.563 actual legal advice consultations. 00:38:24.993 --> 00:38:26.068 But it's a limited timeframe. 00:38:26.068 --> 00:38:31.048 My entry level is only two hours a day at the end of my day that they get access to. 00:38:31.468 --> 00:38:34.978 At my premier level and up they get access to whatever my 00:38:34.978 --> 00:38:36.328 availability is on my calendar. 00:38:37.238 --> 00:38:41.223 They get access to my below market flat fee services, and they get 00:38:41.223 --> 00:38:42.783 access to my growing knowledge base. 00:38:42.903 --> 00:38:45.083 And they can message me in the client portal and I'll let 'em 00:38:45.088 --> 00:38:47.788 know if I could get back to them within a certain amount of time. 00:38:48.435 --> 00:38:51.955 But I also make more money from them when they are paying for other flat 00:38:51.955 --> 00:38:56.010 fee services because when I bundle flat fee services, and I will get to this, 00:38:56.440 --> 00:38:59.835 you're giving a discount on all of that pricing that you're transparent with 00:39:00.081 --> 00:39:04.341 that's bundled in and it's a discount for somebody who's willing to pay $1,500 00:39:04.341 --> 00:39:06.111 a month, $5,000 a month, et cetera. 00:39:06.885 --> 00:39:09.555 So yeah subscription add-ons like my negotiation package. 00:39:09.736 --> 00:39:12.466 Your higher subscription levels should be a discount on the a 00:39:12.466 --> 00:39:16.166 la carte flat fee services, and include subscription add-ons. 00:39:16.926 --> 00:39:18.336 Flat fee add-ons are good too. 00:39:18.546 --> 00:39:20.496 They're really important for one-off transactions if that 00:39:20.496 --> 00:39:21.756 makes sense for your practice. 00:39:21.916 --> 00:39:25.786 But when you can get them to do a subscription add-on, then you have more 00:39:25.786 --> 00:39:27.166 guaranteed monthly recurring revenue. 00:39:28.336 --> 00:39:30.646 And this is implicit, but I don't think I actually say it anywhere, but 00:39:30.646 --> 00:39:32.986 like, you gotta keep your clients happy and you have to do good work, right? 00:39:32.986 --> 00:39:36.191 If you're not like a good lawyer and good at what you do and like good with client 00:39:36.191 --> 00:39:37.751 relationships, then it's not gonna work. 00:39:38.141 --> 00:39:38.981 That's a different talk. 00:39:39.891 --> 00:39:42.376 This helps sell the value of higher subscription levels. 00:39:43.169 --> 00:39:46.379 And by the way, take this and pull this apart and put it back together 00:39:46.379 --> 00:39:47.279 in a way that works for you. 00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:51.659 You can see my website, for example, subscription attorney.com. 00:39:51.899 --> 00:39:55.341 I charge $19.99 a month, and I use that pricing to compete with what 00:39:55.401 --> 00:39:58.911 consumers are used to spending, but also what they're used to seeing. 00:39:59.391 --> 00:40:00.771 Do I really need the extra cent? 00:40:01.191 --> 00:40:01.491 No. 00:40:02.500 --> 00:40:05.320 I charge $50 a page for document drafting and analysis. 00:40:05.894 --> 00:40:07.964 That's unbundled from negotiations. 00:40:08.284 --> 00:40:10.744 I have three buckets and no more than three tiers per bucket. 00:40:10.744 --> 00:40:14.574 So you come to my website, I charge $19.99 a month, schedule a time to 00:40:14.574 --> 00:40:16.284 talk with me, and they will get me. 00:40:16.884 --> 00:40:17.874 It's only 15 minutes. 00:40:18.604 --> 00:40:20.769 I used to not have that on the front page of my website, but once 00:40:20.774 --> 00:40:24.129 I added that, I actually get a lot more clients that sign up for those 00:40:24.129 --> 00:40:25.529 intake calls and I'm converting. 00:40:25.889 --> 00:40:26.799 And then I have "Learn More." 00:40:26.799 --> 00:40:27.369 So two buttons. 00:40:27.369 --> 00:40:28.149 Two options. 00:40:28.149 --> 00:40:31.599 On the first page, they click learn more, they're presented with three more options. 00:40:32.029 --> 00:40:32.929 Are you an individual? 00:40:33.139 --> 00:40:33.919 Are you a freelancer? 00:40:33.919 --> 00:40:34.789 Are you a business owner? 00:40:36.319 --> 00:40:38.379 Here are the prices for those ranges. 00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:41.019 Here's what I offer in a very short summary. 00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:43.239 I try to keep it on one page so you don't have to scroll. 00:40:44.619 --> 00:40:47.229 And then depending on what their needs are, they can also gimme a test drive. 00:40:47.469 --> 00:40:50.229 Businesses have given me a test drive at $20 a month, and 00:40:50.229 --> 00:40:51.399 then they sign up at $1,500. 00:40:52.509 --> 00:40:55.509 So they're willing to pay a little bit more to try out a la carte services 00:40:55.689 --> 00:40:56.709 before they're willing to buy in. 00:40:57.145 --> 00:40:59.965 I've started to experiment with something new here, so feel free to take it. 00:41:00.535 --> 00:41:02.965 There's massive market opportunity with the Latent Legal Market, so 00:41:02.965 --> 00:41:04.205 I'm not worried about competition. 00:41:04.505 --> 00:41:07.728 It's something that I'm calling the Employee Legal Services Plan. 00:41:08.208 --> 00:41:10.513 Their employer pays the $20 a month and they get access 00:41:10.513 --> 00:41:11.773 to all the flat fee services. 00:41:11.773 --> 00:41:15.633 It's not advertised on my website, but I do have a shareable link and I've 00:41:15.638 --> 00:41:18.433 been talking to business owners at my Chamber of Commerce about it, and 00:41:18.433 --> 00:41:19.963 people seem really interested in this. 00:41:20.303 --> 00:41:23.448 As an employee benefit, the employer pays the $20 a month. 00:41:23.631 --> 00:41:28.798 When you unbundled your services and give you like a small part of like what is a 00:41:28.798 --> 00:41:33.688 bigger, you know, matter for the client, do you warn them of like, you know, other 00:41:34.088 --> 00:41:37.558 deadlines or other issues that they should be looking now that you're not working on? 00:41:37.558 --> 00:41:40.468 That way they don't avoid, you know, they, they don't miss a deadline 00:41:40.468 --> 00:41:42.748 that is like in the future that you're not, you're not dealing with. 00:41:42.898 --> 00:41:45.238 I'm not doing litigation, so I have very few deadlines. 00:41:45.352 --> 00:41:48.808 I'm talking about like, I don't know, like you draft like a, a will, but 00:41:48.808 --> 00:41:51.808 there might be some tax implications that you're not dealing with. 00:41:52.138 --> 00:41:57.118 So do you tell them about that or like, you know, like spot some issues that 00:41:57.118 --> 00:42:00.238 you're not dealing with, that way they can look elsewhere or you just focus 00:42:00.238 --> 00:42:02.168 on doing that one particular task? 00:42:02.621 --> 00:42:06.791 I over explain everything to my clients and in writing and in the client 00:42:06.811 --> 00:42:08.101 portal messaging whenever I can. 00:42:08.297 --> 00:42:12.887 I used to make it hard to unsubscribe, but then I learned that clients like to 00:42:12.887 --> 00:42:14.567 be able to unsubscribe and resubscribe. 00:42:14.572 --> 00:42:19.247 And when they use you and they have a login to the client portal, they will log 00:42:19.247 --> 00:42:20.627 back in when they need legal services. 00:42:20.632 --> 00:42:24.027 Even if they're not subscribed, I'd prefer they stay subscribed, but they 00:42:24.027 --> 00:42:25.407 have the same account information. 00:42:25.747 --> 00:42:28.537 Easy unsubscribe and resubscribe just with a button on your website. 00:42:29.017 --> 00:42:29.257 Yeah. 00:42:29.657 --> 00:42:31.652 I'm also a corporate transactional lawyer. 00:42:32.072 --> 00:42:36.729 I saw that you charged $50, $49.99 per page for reviewing a contract. 00:42:37.036 --> 00:42:41.426 As you know, as well as I do, painfully, some contracts are more complex than 00:42:41.426 --> 00:42:44.063 others, and pages are more complex than others, and it might take you 00:42:44.063 --> 00:42:49.073 a lot longer to review three or four pages of a particular contract 00:42:49.073 --> 00:42:53.789 that are particularly naughty, and then others are, you know, a breeze. 00:42:54.179 --> 00:42:57.209 Well, you would hate to see my business subscriptions because I have projects 00:42:57.214 --> 00:43:02.274 in there and my projects are just, they could be 10 projects a month, for example. 00:43:02.574 --> 00:43:05.334 That could be a contract, a letter, a research project. 00:43:05.604 --> 00:43:09.624 I am not thinking about my time at all because I'm being as efficient 00:43:09.624 --> 00:43:12.954 with my time as possible, utilizing all the technology resources that 00:43:12.954 --> 00:43:16.854 I can to cut away all the time that I would spend and be wasting time. 00:43:17.254 --> 00:43:19.774 And because of that, the incentives with the client are actually aligned. 00:43:19.894 --> 00:43:21.724 I'm not looking for extra billable work. 00:43:22.459 --> 00:43:28.343 No, I understand, but don't you sometimes lose money because 00:43:28.433 --> 00:43:30.173 certain pages are more complex? 00:43:30.173 --> 00:43:31.117 I'm not losing money. 00:43:31.177 --> 00:43:31.687 I'm making money. 00:43:31.692 --> 00:43:33.007 I'm making $50 a page. 00:43:33.337 --> 00:43:34.627 I'm not billing my time. 00:43:34.837 --> 00:43:36.257 My time is not what's valuable. 00:43:36.257 --> 00:43:38.047 The service I'm providing is what's valuable. 00:43:38.227 --> 00:43:40.657 I am not thinking about my time being valuable. 00:43:40.777 --> 00:43:43.667 I'm thinking about, I'm providing a service and I'm getting 00:43:43.667 --> 00:43:44.897 value in exchange for it. 00:43:45.047 --> 00:43:47.237 But you only have so many hours in a day. 00:43:47.477 --> 00:43:47.957 I do. 00:43:47.962 --> 00:43:50.987 You're going to spend two or three negotiating a contract for one of these 00:43:50.987 --> 00:43:53.327 clients that you didn't anticipate. 00:43:53.447 --> 00:43:57.917 For example, let's say the negotiation drags on because you have a 00:43:57.917 --> 00:43:59.417 difficult party on the other side. 00:43:59.957 --> 00:44:00.917 It all balances out. 00:44:01.697 --> 00:44:03.707 It all balances out in the long run. 00:44:03.777 --> 00:44:04.947 I'm not gonna sit on the phone. 00:44:04.997 --> 00:44:08.417 I'm gonna find another way around it and I'm gonna find an ethical and reasonable 00:44:08.417 --> 00:44:10.007 way to not let it take that long. 00:44:10.157 --> 00:44:10.907 That's what I'm gonna do. 00:44:10.967 --> 00:44:12.587 Cause I'm not incentivized to let it take long. 00:44:13.398 --> 00:44:15.348 So yeah, I take the anti-law firm approach. 00:44:15.828 --> 00:44:16.548 You don't have to. 00:44:17.498 --> 00:44:20.698 Traditional looking law firms using this model, I think are in demand. 00:44:20.698 --> 00:44:22.828 In fact, I've lost a few clients that don't want 00:44:22.833 --> 00:44:25.588 "Subscription Attorney LLC" on the letterhead, and that's fine. 00:44:25.938 --> 00:44:26.748 It's not a good fit. 00:44:28.098 --> 00:44:29.178 But they love the model. 00:44:29.358 --> 00:44:32.778 I'm even thinking about launching a DBA in another brand, Kerbis Legal Service. 00:44:33.273 --> 00:44:35.763 There's market opportunity there, but I'm doing a lot, so 00:44:35.763 --> 00:44:36.663 I'm probably not gonna do that. 00:44:37.019 --> 00:44:37.850 But I'm thinking about it. 00:44:38.180 --> 00:44:38.990 I saw a question. 00:44:39.151 --> 00:44:43.661 So, I know that you let them unsubscribe anytime but is there a contract like where 00:44:43.911 --> 00:44:47.961 they can’t get out within a certain period because what if like they subscribe, 00:44:48.871 --> 00:44:50.441 they get that initial consultation. 00:44:50.771 --> 00:44:54.241 They get what they need and then they unsubscribe next month, right? 00:44:54.341 --> 00:44:54.551 Yeah. 00:44:54.551 --> 00:44:54.971 Thanks. 00:44:54.971 --> 00:44:57.851 Come back when you have more, more legal issues that you need solved, then I'll 00:44:57.851 --> 00:44:59.351 be happy to take your money and help you. 00:44:59.981 --> 00:45:00.521 It's fine with me. 00:45:00.953 --> 00:45:02.928 In exchange for very valuable legal services. 00:45:03.608 --> 00:45:05.953 Trade name firm for niching down, right? 00:45:07.243 --> 00:45:10.183 "We'll Fight for You California Personal Injury Attorneys." 00:45:10.213 --> 00:45:11.173 Trade names are allowed. 00:45:11.203 --> 00:45:12.433 Thank you, LawHQ. 00:45:12.733 --> 00:45:14.293 So, use a trade name if you want. 00:45:15.028 --> 00:45:18.368 If you want to build a brand and you eventually want to cash in on 00:45:18.368 --> 00:45:21.638 the brand that you've built, and you wanna sell your law firm in 10, 20, 30 00:45:21.638 --> 00:45:24.788 years and you have monthly recurring revenue and data that you could show 00:45:24.788 --> 00:45:27.008 the purchaser, you're gonna make 00:45:27.008 --> 00:45:27.488 BANK. 00:45:28.344 --> 00:45:29.994 Huge opportunity here. 00:45:30.504 --> 00:45:33.333 And this kind of came up in the last presentation what about non-English 00:45:33.333 --> 00:45:35.653 speaking options for client portal stuff. 00:45:35.896 --> 00:45:40.341 I know of the couple dozen attorneys using the subscription model, I 00:45:40.341 --> 00:45:42.741 think maybe two of them employ somebody who speaks Spanish. 00:45:43.461 --> 00:45:45.171 Huge market opportunity here. 00:45:45.589 --> 00:45:47.054 We're gonna do a speed round on ethics. 00:45:47.104 --> 00:45:48.439 I started running out of time, folks. 00:45:48.459 --> 00:45:50.349 This is all in the notes, and there's nothing here that's 00:45:50.349 --> 00:45:51.669 too much of a surprise, right? 00:45:51.949 --> 00:45:54.199 These are the Model Rules, you know, consult ethics council. 00:45:54.199 --> 00:45:56.319 You're allowed to limit the scope of representation. 00:45:56.509 --> 00:46:00.459 The terms have to be explicit, and you have to let them know about limitations. 00:46:01.235 --> 00:46:03.785 The limitation must be reasonable under the circumstances. 00:46:03.785 --> 00:46:04.835 So what are the circumstances? 00:46:04.885 --> 00:46:08.158 Part of the reason why I'm approaching the Latent Legal Market with very, 00:46:08.158 --> 00:46:11.608 very low cost legal services, is because I think they're very 00:46:11.608 --> 00:46:14.998 reasonable in light of the high value of service I'm actually providing. 00:46:16.198 --> 00:46:17.853 That's just the approach that I'm choosing to take with it. 00:46:17.853 --> 00:46:20.253 It doesn't mean you can't comply with this by charging a premium. 00:46:21.483 --> 00:46:22.773 But all lawyers charge a premium. 00:46:23.173 --> 00:46:26.913 Reasonableness factors include whether the fee is fixed or contingent. 00:46:26.918 --> 00:46:31.503 So the Model Rules already contemplate fixed fees, and like it was mentioned 00:46:31.503 --> 00:46:35.203 in the last talk, a subscription is just a fixed fee every month. 00:46:36.043 --> 00:46:36.163 It's 00:46:36.168 --> 00:46:36.733 all, it is. 00:46:38.166 --> 00:46:42.126 It also contemplates regularly represented clients, right? 00:46:42.276 --> 00:46:45.516 So, if your clients are subscribing to you, I'd consider that 00:46:45.516 --> 00:46:47.346 regularly represented clients. 00:46:48.099 --> 00:46:49.239 Everything's on my website. 00:46:49.349 --> 00:46:52.424 So give your client a memorandum or whatever, but I'm not keeping anything 00:46:52.424 --> 00:46:53.624 I'm doing a secret from anyone. 00:46:53.624 --> 00:46:57.039 I also want all you to copy me to the extent that, that's relevant to you. 00:46:57.399 --> 00:46:57.939 I don't care. 00:46:57.939 --> 00:47:01.669 None of my stuff is protected, and there's no hidden anything with 00:47:01.689 --> 00:47:03.189 my clients or the general public. 00:47:03.279 --> 00:47:03.609 Yeah. 00:47:03.939 --> 00:47:08.019 Do you consult with your legal malpractice insurance provider as 00:47:08.019 --> 00:47:12.479 to like how you should document your services with this client? 00:47:12.479 --> 00:47:17.619 Like, your terms of engagement to prevent any malpractice exposure when 00:47:17.669 --> 00:47:19.039 you're delivering legal services? 00:47:19.652 --> 00:47:22.522 The question was about my malpractice insurance provider and disclosures I'm 00:47:22.522 --> 00:47:23.782 making to make sure that they're happy. 00:47:23.842 --> 00:47:24.622 They love me. 00:47:25.092 --> 00:47:28.212 They absolutely love me and they're planning to have me do talks on 00:47:28.212 --> 00:47:31.212 this to get other of their clients to use subscription models too. 00:47:31.422 --> 00:47:32.622 Everything's transparent. 00:47:32.902 --> 00:47:36.172 Everything is out there and everything's automated and everything is tracked, 00:47:36.412 --> 00:47:37.492 and so they absolutely love it. 00:47:37.654 --> 00:47:39.579 I don't speak on their behalf, but that's been my impression. 00:47:40.295 --> 00:47:42.575 They want me to talk and teach other lawyers how to do it. 00:47:42.785 --> 00:47:45.635 A lawyer may require advanced payment of a fee, but is obliged to 00:47:45.635 --> 00:47:47.045 return any unearned portion, right? 00:47:47.045 --> 00:47:48.965 So this goes back to the question of earned fees. 00:47:49.115 --> 00:47:51.815 You have to be careful with how you define an earned fee in your jurisdiction, 00:47:51.815 --> 00:47:53.265 but it is something that you can do. 00:47:54.495 --> 00:47:58.035 And if you're hesitant about it, you could put the subscription 00:47:58.035 --> 00:48:00.476 into your trust account and at the end of the month, transfer it. 00:48:00.735 --> 00:48:02.415 We're lawyers, we're problem solvers. 00:48:02.805 --> 00:48:03.735 Comply ethically. 00:48:03.765 --> 00:48:06.915 If you're concerned about it being an unearned fee, put the fee in your 00:48:06.915 --> 00:48:09.825 trust fund for that first 30 days, depending on if it's 30 days or 00:48:09.825 --> 00:48:12.495 per month, whatever your engagement agreement says, and transfer it as 00:48:12.495 --> 00:48:13.665 soon as the next payment comes in. 00:48:14.325 --> 00:48:15.825 Cuz at that point, you know it's earned. 00:48:16.509 --> 00:48:19.839 A lawyer should not exploit a fee arrangement based primarily on hourly 00:48:19.839 --> 00:48:21.609 charges, by using wasteful procedures. 00:48:21.889 --> 00:48:25.549 I read this to be, if you're not using legal technology to be as efficient as 00:48:25.549 --> 00:48:27.919 possible, that's a wasteful procedure. 00:48:27.919 --> 00:48:30.679 I know that's a little bit of an extreme position, but eventually, 00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:34.369 you will not be able to make as much money billing hours as using the 00:48:34.369 --> 00:48:35.369 subscription and flat fee model. 00:48:35.894 --> 00:48:39.074 So do you want to wait until that happens, or do you want to be ready for it now? 00:48:39.528 --> 00:48:40.518 Final thoughts on ethics. 00:48:40.518 --> 00:48:41.468 Speak with ethics counsel. 00:48:41.468 --> 00:48:42.918 Be transparent with your fees. 00:48:43.248 --> 00:48:45.918 I'm transparent everywhere and in triplicate. 00:48:46.215 --> 00:48:47.505 Be creative how you approach it. 00:48:47.505 --> 00:48:50.205 My subscribers get access as subscriber benefits. 00:48:50.625 --> 00:48:53.865 Access to unlimited scheduled calls, below market flat fee rates. 00:48:53.865 --> 00:48:55.695 I talked about all this answering questions. 00:48:55.990 --> 00:48:56.840 Here's my contact information. 00:48:57.774 --> 00:48:58.734 Feel free to reach out. 00:48:58.824 --> 00:49:02.514 And if you want to launch a subscription for your law practice, I'll be happy 00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:03.744 to interview you on my podcast. 00:49:03.749 --> 00:49:04.464 Law Subscribed. 00:49:04.824 --> 00:49:05.184 Thank you. 00:49:05.234 --> 00:49:06.034 Thank you so much. 00:49:06.474 --> 00:49:08.154 I'll stick around if there's any questions.